Moving to Brisbane in a week- baby car seat advice needed!

[CocoKev]

Hi all- DH, DS (9 months) and I are moving to Brisbane on Saturday- eek! I'm very excited about it all and thought we had everything just about sorted until I realised that we may not be able to use DS's current car seat once we're over there. The plan had been to bring his seat with us and then get a new one over there to fit whichever car we end up going with. I had assumed that isofix was standard over there but from what I've read I don't think it's legal even though many cars are isofix-ready.

If we were staying here I would have bought one of the rearfacing seats for use up to around age 4- but again, from what I've read I don't think they're legal over there. I'm tempted to upgrade now and bring a larger rearfacing one with us, use it and run the risk of being fined once we're there if caught- but am not sure how this would be treated by the police. I'm willing to risk being stopped because I believe it's so much safer for DS to travel rear facing for as long as possible- DH is less sure. Has anyone else had similar issues on moving over? Sorry this is so long- thanks for your help!

[roary]

Oh, now I am so confused. We are facing the same problem. I thought it was undeniable that ISOFIX was safer (hence all the lobbying to introduce it to AUstralia().

My understanding (based on not much, to be fair) is not that ISOFIX would invalidate your entire insurance but that insurance would not pay out if your child was injured in an accident. This could be very bad news if the injury was catastrophic. This makes more sense than a complete invalidation.

FWIW, the Aussie car seats are very expensive. kidsafe WA, an independent child safety group, actually only recommends 3 different types and they are all very expensive. In the main they are not for sale at Target etc, the cheap ones there are not recommended apparently.

As for why they stick to the system here, it's classic resistance to change and happens everywhere in the world on different issues. LIke asking why separate hot and cold taps persist in the uk!

[BertieBotts]

The LATCH system isn't unique to australia though, it's also used in the usa, or at last it was a couple of years ago.

[ComradeJing]

Ohh! Just had this from Choice. Australia are going to introduce Isofix.

here

Interesting article though it seems like everyone is arguing a different point.

[CocoKev]

Sorry not to have checked back in a day or two- but it seems as though the debate is chugging along nicely without me. We're just about over our jet lag and are exploring the city and suburbs looking for somewhere to live. So far everything we've seen makes me think we're going to have a wonderful time here. Thanks for all your thoughts on the car seat issue. The big worry is obviously the insurance being invalidated. We have brought our rearfacing car seat with us and will see how we get on. We'll be getting a car with a novated lease through DH's work- not sure about the insurance issues with that but will look into that when we have more details. Hope to come across the Brisbanites amongst you at some point during our time here!

[mousymouse]

unvalid insurance is a biggie.
I know of people it had happened to in Germany. they were bankrupted and will never ever see light again.
basically the uninsured driver has to pay the other parties health costs, and because of the injuries the person needs 24/7 care for the rest of his life, add to that all the operations, repair of the road (because of fuel fire)...the figure is in the millions!

[Bubbaluv]

The other problem is how hard it is to switch Aussie seats from one car to another. I can move my Isofix seats in a couple of minutes, but I'd have to go to a fitting station to move an Aussie one and be really confident that it was properly in place. Ridiculous!!

[Thumbwitch]

OK, that sounds likely - but what is the bloody point of refusing to have the option and giving parents the option as well?? Some parents will stick with what they know, so long as they don't do a complete switchover in one hit, no one will be hurt by it, they could have ISOfix and the top restraint both legal - it's not only stupid, it's endangering children's lives, according to the Volvo report. :(

[ComradeJing]

I've been given the impression it's about the car companies not the car seat companies. On the one hand seems to be the big foreign companies like Toyota who (IME) put in both Latch and isofix systems. They would rather have isofix and are badgering the government to switch over. Then on the other hand are the Aussie car companies who want it to stay as it is.

I've never known a country like australia for protectionist business practices so maybe the Latch car seats are made in country. Who knows.

The big thing for me is getting the car seat fitted. As it said in the article, Latch is thought to be harder to fit. Yes you can pay to have them correctly fitted but there is only one in WA and it's miles from where our family are.

Hope the OP is enjoying Bris.

[Thumbwitch]

Gottit! Some bloke who can't accept he's ever wrong just like DH - that's what the problem is!

[Thumbwitch]

Agreed - wonder what it is??

[Bubbaluv]

Oh, I know - I more meant that there was no GOOD reason why Australia has to dig it's heels in. Someone must have an angle though otherwise they'd just get thier act together and catch up with the rest of the world.

[Thumbwitch]

I don't know that it's just to protect the Aussie carseat industry, Bubbaluv - the seat we bought recently is a Britax, which is a UK company (bought through Mothercare in Australia, also a British company). In fact, most of the carseats that I've seen are global companies - I'm sure there will be an Aussie company that does them but it's not necessarily a big player, iyswim.

So, no idea why the Aussies are clinging arrogantly to their top-strap design and ignoring the ISOfix - what's that all about then?

[Bubbaluv]

I though that last line pretty much summed up my position on this topic...

"While the new child restraint rules will save some young lives, ongoing regulatory arrogance in Australia will continue to add unnecessarily to the death and injury toll among our most vulnerable passengers, at least until the legislation is further upgraded to meet world?s best practice standards."

Sometimes the law is wrong, and I will not put my children at increased risk because someone wants to protect the Australian carseat manufactuing industry.

[Thumbwitch]

That's Very Interesting indeed, ComradeJing, thank you.
I have to say, I do loathe the top tether system - it's painful and the straps aren't always the easiest to adjust!

How would you know if your car has isofix points though? The system I used in the UK was a clip in base, but the base was held in place just using the rear seatbelt, no isofix points.

I would have kept DS rearfacing much longer if we'd stayed in the UK - I have a damaged neck from when I was 3 (not from a car crash, something else) and have suffered because of it all my life, so it's very important to me to keep DS's neck safe.

[ComradeJing]

interview with volvo re isofix & australian standards

[Bubbaluv]

I never said that it didn't invalidate ANY insurance, I said it didn't invalidate my policy with the NRMA. They said they might not cover the seat if it were stolen but it was otherwise not a problem.
I will continue to break a law that I believe is not in the best interest of my children and I don't ask for anyone's approval - thanks.

[gregssausageroll]

It does invalidate insurance. I have seen it happen. Carry on - break the law because this thread seems to seek approval for that. You won't get it from me.

[ifink]

hi Coco (I've name changed from zzlondongirlzz....am so far from London felt I needed a change!). I agree it really is a minefield. I can only add that I've obviously recently purchased Australian car seats for my two and I'm very impressed by their quality and robustness (not that I've been in an accident thankfully) but they are massive and the side protection cushions are huge. Safe to say that there is no way my mum will be able to fit in the middle seat when she visits! If you you were to decide to buy here then I'd be happy to PM the details. The extra anchorage system here is definitely better than the UK standard forward/rear facing seat using seat belts and it really wasn't difficult for my DH to fit the seats. The prob is if you buy an older car without existing anchorage points then you have to pay for retrospective fitting etc - just something to watch when buying a car and you did decide to use ozzie seats.

[MrsDistinctlyMintyMonetarism]

It's such a minefield.

According to Aussie rules my two dc are big enough simply to use the adult seatbelts.

I don't want them in bloody seatbelts, I want them in a car seat with some added side protection.

This is apparently unlawful.

[Bubbaluv]

I just called the NRMA and confirmed that using an Isofix car seat would NOT invalidate my car insurance.

[Bubbaluv]

I use my isofix car seats here and a number of my Aussie friends order Isofix seats and have them shipped here simply beacuse they are safer (according to everyone but the Australian transport authorities) and soooo much easier to fit. Never heard of anyone being stopped and fined, but as far as I'm concerned it's a price I'm willing to pay. In any case, the likelyhood of having any trouble before you buy a new car and get a new carseat to fit it is v low.

[BertieBotts]

When you say no insurance, does that mean health insurance, rather than car insurance? Rather a different prospect in that instance. No use preventing serious injury if you then can't afford to get the less-serious injury treated! Otherwise I can see exactly what CocoKev is saying. (I have no idea how health insurance and health care works though, admittedly)

[chloeb2002]

I asked the question why to the qld transport.. the answer was simple. ISO fix is less safe than the Aussie tether system. ISO fix anchors your child to the seat. In the event of a side collision your child will bear the brunt as the seat will not move till the anchor points are moved.. that's the middle of the seat. Too late for the child. As a mother of 3 I can safely say that none of them would want to sit rear facing once they want to look around. Seats here have a recline and I agree with Greg... I just hope its not me or someone I know that's involved in an accident with someone who will have no insurance... Great seats here.. I even took mine to the UK.. where they are considered a higher than UK standard so with the fittings try can be used legally....

[CocoKev]

Gregssausageroll-I think it's all about risk management. We have to weigh up whether we run the risk invalidating insurance and deal with potential consequences of that. The alternative might be that DS sustains otherwise-avoidable injuries in a crash. Obviously I don't know the details of what happened with the family you know, and I wouldn't want to make light of that.
I'm generally very law abiding and find the thought of doing this a bit scary- if I didn't really think it was worth doing, I'd never even contemplate it.

[gregssausageroll]

Because they are not legal! It isn't about what you want it is about what is legal and adapting to the laws of the new country you are moving to.

I may be sound a bit too passionate about it but knowing a family whose insurance was invalidated for using a UK car seat when they were in an accident in WA and the fall out of that was horrendous.

When you get to Australia you will here about nothing but road accidents and fatalities. Every day these happen because of bonkers driving standards. Spot checks by the Police are very common, particularly on double demerit weekends.

I just personally wouldn't risk it but that is me. If you want to break the law carry on.