LPA for elderly woman in care home

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

My mother has recently moved to a care home after a suicide attempt and subsequent month long stay in hospital. Her reason for wanting to die is that my sister has been bullying her about money. She left a note to tvat same effect. I have no idea if this is true in reality but i believe it is my mother’s reality. I think part of it is that my sister has been trying to put LPA in place for some tome which my mother has been angrily resisting. She is absolutely clear she does not want it. Sister has now had the lawyer out to the care home where my mum is kettled 🙄 and i have been sent a letter by the certificate provider as a person to inform.

Do i tell the certificate provider about the suicide attempt? And the reason for it? There is a social worker involved.

How do i check with my Mother that she’s OK about the LPA? I know that if I explain it she will not want it. She simply isn’t comfortable with the scope of the authority conferred.

why did my sister do this now. My mother is under a huge amount of stress.

What is the most important thing here? Can not having an LPA be in someone’s best interests? What do i do to protect my mum?

[HollyNightingale]

I don’t think your sister can apply to become LPA for your Mum; only your Mum can apply to appoint an LPA of her choosing. If your Mum was deemed to lack capacity, your sister could apply to the Court of Protection to become a Deputy, which has more restrictions/oversight. But she can’t do that if your Mum has capacity to make her own decisions.

[Absurdgiraffe]

How about explaining the LPA to your mum and see what she says?

Also speak to the social worker about your concerns - do you think your mum has been coerced to sign or doesn't know what she has signed? Social worker can help if she is a vulnerable adult.

[AllEars112232]

The sister can apply for the LPA if mum has signed the form. If a solicitor is the certificate provider I think you must contact them and express your concerns, after all that is exactly why people like yourself have to be notified about the application to register the LPA. It all part of the checks and balances put in place to stop people getting a power of attorney illegally.

please contact the certificate provider urgently, they need to know the other side to this. And go and talk to your mum, she used to be against this so has she signed it against her will?

[namechangeaaargh]

The LPA can only happen if your mum signs it, though unclear whether your sister might be putting her under duress to sign.

Who is the ceritificate provider? They have to speak to your mum alone and are supposed to check that your mum understands what she is doing and that she is not being coerced. I absolutely would speak to them re the suicide attempt if I were you and also say that you don't think your mum wants this.

Would your mum want it if you were the attorney instead of your sister? Things can get very difficult if the person loses capacity, there's no LPA and someone needs to manage their bank accounts etc. Without an LPA you would have to go to the court of protection and apply for deputyship. If your mum made you LPA then she would at least have some control over the situation, assuming she trusts you.

(I'm talkiing about the financial and property LPA here, as I think you are)

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

My sister arranged for the paralegal to visit the care home. My mum doesnt have a phone and she foesnt use email. It us deginirely tge case that my sister called in the legal person.

[Absurdgiraffe]

I recently went to training on this, OP. I was shocked to discover that there are dodgy solicitors who will get this paperwork done on a relatives behalf when it is not clear that the individual wants or understands what she is signing.

In other words not all act ethically. I have heard of social workers having to intervene to prevent it.

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

I would consider informing Social Services, OP. Google the adult safeguarding helpline for her local authority.

[Needapadlockonmyfridge]

Nobody can take out an LPA for someone else.

As above, the Certificate Provider will need to sign to say they are satisfied your Mum understands what she is doing in making the LPA. The CP can be a professional, or can slso be someome who has known your Mum more than 2 years.

Has your sister said why you are not also being appointed Attorney?

If you are concerned it may be worth ringing the Office of the Public Guardian.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

Thank you for your help. I will let the certificate provider know about the suicide and the stated reasons for the suicide.

my mother had definitely been coerced. The two LPAs are one local to my mum. And the other on the other side of the world.

it’s ridiculous. My sensible sister is a former health professional and a director of s health and social care company. She and I were not considered for Attorney posts. 🙄

[Helenloveslee4eva]

If your mum doesn’t agree with the LPOA or doesn’t have capacity to understand / freely allocate it then this is not ok legally.

you can and should challenge it with the office of the public guardian if you are concerned. Certainly have a chat with your mum first but I’d be concerned if she is mentally unwell she lacks capacity for that reason.

be aware though you may also get entangled with court if protection stuff , which is stressful and expensive , but if your sister is not on your mums side ( why don’t you talk to sis ? Why aren’t you involved in the power of attorney ? ) that’s where it may need to be for your mums protection.

[Helenloveslee4eva]

BTW don’t panic too much. There is a “ cooling off “ period before LPOA becomes useable exactly for such circumstances.

[GinForBreakfast]

How old is your mum and does she definitely have capacity?

What do you think your sister's motives are?

[namechangeaaargh]

What do you mean you and your sister weren't considered as attorneys?
Your mum decides on the attorney(s). Did she decide on these three people? If it's joint rather than joint and several then having one on the other side of the world isn't going to work.

So has your sister instigated this, but your mum is being coerced by somebody else? Or she's been coerced by your sister into having 3 other people as attorneys. Sorry but I am having trouble following your posts.

[JennyMule]

OP, It's not entirely clear to me if you have been formally notified by the OPG of registration or simply written to by the Paralegal? If the latter that suggests the person dealing with it may have some concerns IMO as typically I wouldn't write to family about taking their relative's instructions. I would suggest that you do several things:

1. If you are able, go to see your mum and talk her through what she wants. If she did donate an LPA but wants to change her mind she can revoke it in a very straightforward way without a solicitor. If the LPA hasn't been registered she can simply withdraw her instructions to her solicitors.
2. Contact the firm of solicitors for whom the paralegal works and express your concerns that they may unwittingly be facilitating financial abuse of your mother (with reference to the bullying and consequent MH/suicide issues) and ask them if they can confirm that they've taken mum's instructions alone and not with sister present in the room or nearby.
3. Make an adult safeguarding referral to the local social services authority where your mum is if not satisfied with the answers you receive (and tell solicitors ' Head of Private Client dept that you are doing so.
4. If it's being registered already contact OPG and object to registration of the LPA - while the OPG only has overnight of registered LPAs I've had swift/effective results from emailing the OPG to advise that before registering an LPA for (name) of (address) etc they should enquire into the donor's capacity with regard to coercion or other concerns so might be worth emailing them anyway on a belt & braces basis.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

@JennyMule

OP, It's not entirely clear to me if you have been formally notified by the OPG of registration or simply written to by the Paralegal? If the latter that suggests the person dealing with it may have some concerns IMO as typically I wouldn't write to family about taking their relative's instructions. I would suggest that you do several things:

1. If you are able, go to see your mum and talk her through what she wants. If she did donate an LPA but wants to change her mind she can revoke it in a very straightforward way without a solicitor. If the LPA hasn't been registered she can simply withdraw her instructions to her solicitors.
2. Contact the firm of solicitors for whom the paralegal works and express your concerns that they may unwittingly be facilitating financial abuse of your mother (with reference to the bullying and consequent MH/suicide issues) and ask them if they can confirm that they've taken mum's instructions alone and not with sister present in the room or nearby.
3. Make an adult safeguarding referral to the local social services authority where your mum is if not satisfied with the answers you receive (and tell solicitors ' Head of Private Client dept that you are doing so.
4. If it's being registered already contact OPG and object to registration of the LPA - while the OPG only has overnight of registered LPAs I've had swift/effective results from emailing the OPG to advise that before registering an LPA for (name) of (address) etc they should enquire into the donor's capacity with regard to coercion or other concerns so might be worth emailing them anyway on a belt & braces basis.

This is absolutely awesome. Thank you so much.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

We are 4 sisters.

2 are appointing themselves. My Mum doesn't even know what an LPA is. They took her to the lawyers 2 years ago. And my mother walked out. The same lawyer.

i have seen a copy of the email from my sister to the lawyer saying she was coming to the Uk to work on getting the POA in place.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

@JennyMule

OP, It's not entirely clear to me if you have been formally notified by the OPG of registration or simply written to by the Paralegal? If the latter that suggests the person dealing with it may have some concerns IMO as typically I wouldn't write to family about taking their relative's instructions. I would suggest that you do several things:

1. If you are able, go to see your mum and talk her through what she wants. If she did donate an LPA but wants to change her mind she can revoke it in a very straightforward way without a solicitor. If the LPA hasn't been registered she can simply withdraw her instructions to her solicitors.
2. Contact the firm of solicitors for whom the paralegal works and express your concerns that they may unwittingly be facilitating financial abuse of your mother (with reference to the bullying and consequent MH/suicide issues) and ask them if they can confirm that they've taken mum's instructions alone and not with sister present in the room or nearby.
3. Make an adult safeguarding referral to the local social services authority where your mum is if not satisfied with the answers you receive (and tell solicitors ' Head of Private Client dept that you are doing so.
4. If it's being registered already contact OPG and object to registration of the LPA - while the OPG only has overnight of registered LPAs I've had swift/effective results from emailing the OPG to advise that before registering an LPA for (name) of (address) etc they should enquire into the donor's capacity with regard to coercion or other concerns so might be worth emailing them anyway on a belt & braces basis.

Yes, it’s from the paralegal.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

@namechangeaaargh

What do you mean you and your sister weren't considered as attorneys?
Your mum decides on the attorney(s). Did she decide on these three people? If it's joint rather than joint and several then having one on the other side of the world isn't going to work.

So has your sister instigated this, but your mum is being coerced by somebody else? Or she's been coerced by your sister into having 3 other people as attorneys. Sorry but I am having trouble following your posts.

The point is my mum hasn't chosen. She has been coerced. My mum has not contacted the lawyer at all.

[unsync]

If your mother has capacity, might it be worth talking to her about appointing you as her Attorney? That would prevent your sister being able to do what she is doing. Furthermore, I seem to recall that you can choose to have the PoA activate only once capacity is gone. I do hope you can resolve this, it sounds awful for you.

[TizerorFizz]

My mum is in a care home and they insist on LPA for capacity. DM set one up but it’s a 20 week wait for OPG. Finance one is vital. One person is fine in my view. Knowing the issues I’ve had in getting certain banks to get the LPA registered, it’s utterly ludicrous to have someone abroad trying to do it. Money laundering regs being one huge issue!

I would try and persuade DM that both are necessary. They really are. She should have local and sensible attorneys. If she doesn’t have them you cannot make financial decisions (eg selling her house), make payments from her bank account or manage any investments . It’s vital and DM needs help to recognise this. Who does it needs careful consideration .

[JennyMule]

You say your mum doesn't even know what an LPA is. Is that due to her mental state and hence lack of mental capacity, do you believe, or because she doesn't have the knowledge (and would understand if it was explained to her?)
If she lacks the mental capacity to donate an LPA that is grounds for the OPG to refuse to register.
However no firm of Solicitors would wish to act in circumstances where the proposed Donor lacks capacity.
What was the Paralegal writing to you about? Formal notification of registration comes directly from the OPG so was it a letter telling you that mum was making a LPA? If so I'd contact their Head of Department today and express your concerns about the manner in which third party instructions are being taken and tell them that you will be raising your concerns with the OPG with a view to the OPG investigating whether the donor had capacity and donated the LPA freely or in circumstances amounting to coercion with a view to financial abuse.

Btw "Paralegal" is one of those meaningless job titles, like "lawyer" which doesn't infer any specific qualifications, just that the person works in the legal sector! Some of the Paralegals working with me have 20+ years experience and can do lots, others are fresh out of Sixth form so don't be bamboozled by fancy sounding job titles!

[JennyMule]

The other point to consider (and I've had potential clients who do this) is could your mum potentially be saying diametrically opposite things to different daughters? ie are you all acting in good faith based on what mum says to you with mum saying "what she thinks the daughter wants to hear" to each? If so, some communication directly with all siblings would be a good idea (but I'm guessing that if it was that simple you would have resolved it without recourse to MN.)
If the potential attorney is domiciled abroad I echo PP re the practical obstacles to operating UK bank accounts as it's highly unlikely someone who doesn't have a current UK address, ID and credit reference would pass the bank's AML procedures.

[YesIwillyesIwillYes]

She left a suicide note to say she wanted to die because she was being financially bullied by sister X. She was very consistent in saying that was the reason. It was disvussed with the psych team and with the social worker. Sister X is the proposed attorney who lives near her.

To be clear, I don’t know what was happening but it is what my Mother said. I’d like to think it wasn’t true but it was my Mother’s perception.

[TizerorFizz]

@YesIwillyesIwillYes In that case you could suggest you are attorney. If she’s in a home, the papers to sign will be sent there. Speak to the home. They might help with getting someone to judge if she has capacity or not. Who made the decision about the home. Was her note a fit of pique? Is there evidence of bullying? Who is paying for the home?

[GinForBreakfast]

I've recently gone through something similar with an elderly relative and sadly due to undiagnosed dementia she was not a reliable narrator of her own life. Once she had her diagnosis, a lot of what was happening made sense.

I'm not saying your mum definitely has dementia, and if there is financial abuse she needs to be protected, but you might have to sit down with your sisters and the people around your mum to get a true picture of what is happening.