Employer and pregnancy

[Livelovebehappy]

Just looking for advice. Daughter is pregnant with first child. She’s been working for her employer in a management capacity for nearly five years. It’s a family run business who deal with vulnerable people, with close links to the Council. She runs the ‘home’, with her manager being remote, but who links in obviously occasionally. Her manager owns the business. Never any previous problems with her work, and daughter has always had a very friendly relationship with her (female) manager. In fact her manager has always said how happy she is with her work and how they couldn’t cope without her. Daughter announced pregnancy earlier this year and things have gone dramatically downhill since. Her manager has had a total personality change, criticises her work daily, and arranges impromptu meetings, where she shouts at her, threatens her with demotion, has told her she has to use her holiday for antenatal appointments, which she has been doing as didn’t want to upset her manager. She brings up situations which occurred before the pregnancy, which didn’t happen. These meetings have been ramped up to every other day for the past two weeks. My daughter is highly stressed and goes home to her partner in tears most days. She’s normally a strong person. Her mat leave starts in June, and despite loving the job previously,she’s decided that after the baby is born, she will look for another job, but is obviously not able to in her current situation, as it’s unlikely she will get employment when going on mat leave soon. My suggestion to her is to try to keep her head down, just sit through the meetings, and try to get to her mat leave, as walking out will mean she will lose her mat pay with her employer, and also no money coming in in the meantime. The other alternative would be for her to get a sick note, stating stress, but might this affect her job prospects afterwards, ie, will this be something she needs to disclose with any future employer with her wanting to continue with a job with vulnerable people? And what about references? Could her current employer destroy her chances of getting a job she wants? Just want to make sure I’m giving her the best advice. Thank you.

[trippingthelightfantastic1]

Sounds like blatant pregnancy discrimination which is unlawful.

By law your daughter is entitled to time off with full pay for all antenatal (pregnancy-related) appointments including scans, GP or other medical appointments and preparation classes. She absolutely does not need to use her annual leave.

Your daughter is best to put this all in writing so there is a written record. I would suggest that she sends an email to her manager to say that whilst she has advised that she needs to take annual leave for her antenatal appointments, this is not correct and she would like the leave she has taken so far to be given back. I would also suggest that she sets out the change in behaviour she has experienced since advising of her pregnancy. Include the threats and shouting. This would be considered unacceptable behaviour and harassment to any employee, let alone one who is pregnant and is being treated unfavourably for that very reason.

I appreciate that it is difficult to respond to a bully, but if she doesn't stand up for her rights, things will continue. Also, it is easier to take action later (if necessary) if she puts something in writing now.

Many employers refuse to give a reference nowadays and at most will only set out the dates a person worked in the job. Some employers are just plain awful. If your daughter can, she should ride it out and just not return. If her employer causes too much stress, she could get signed off. But the GP should make clear this is due to work-related stress and what is causing that stress - being shouted at and threatened with demotion etc.

[Livelovebehappy]

Thank you so much for this. It’s really helpful. Daughter had reached out to her manager shortly after this started happening, and asked her what had happened that had changed the way she was suddenly being treated. Manager just said that she was changing the way she managed, and this was the new way going forward. I’ve told her to document everything following an incident last week when daughter was told to tell one of the employees that her salary was going to be decreased. Daughter told the manager that she didn’t feel comfortable doing this as she hadn’t been asked before to carry out this sort of discussion. Manager said she would send guidance. Didn’t though, and a couple of days later followed up on it, and denied saying she was sending through guidance, and that my daughter had failed to carry out a task she was told to do. Daughter has also been told to do some night shifts next week, which she has said happy to do, but as she will be working alone with vulnerable people in her care, she has asked for a risk assessment, which the manager has refused to do. During the last meeting, daughter did start challenging some things the manager was saying, which was when she was shouted at, told she was at risk of being demoted and the manager stormed out of the meeting. It’s all very toxic. My daughter actually rang me at three in the morning that night as she was so upset, couldn’t sleep and just needed to talk to me. Fingers crossed that she’s strong enough to just ride it out until her mat leave. It’s just sad that she can’t enjoy her pregnancy with all this going on.

[backaftera2yearbreak]

https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/contact-us-2/

maybe try calling here?

[Propertylover]

@Livelovebehappy I agree pregnant then screwed and ACAS are best placed to advise.

This sounds like a very poor employer/manager trying to push your DD out so they don’t have to pay SMP and keep her job open. This is incredibly sad in this day and age.

As pp said this is maternity and pregnancy discrimination.

[Hoppinggreen]

Speak to Pregnant Then Screwed, I have heard good things about them.
It may be that she can resign and then sue for Contructive Dismissal due to Discrimination (not a lawyer or HR person so take proper advice).
Might take a while and be stressful but after 5 years service she could get enough money to tide her over for a but

[Livelovebehappy]

Thank you! Daughter is going to call them today. Been on their site and look to be a good source of info. She has received a call from her manager today to say she will be demoted with her salary now halved. She has been told she has to work 12 hour shifts now instead of seven. Daughter can't do this, and they're aware, as she doesn't drive and the trains dont start early enough. Not sure if they need to give notice for demotion? Absolute nightmare!

[PickledPurplePickle]

She needs to take proper advice, get her to call ACAS straight away

[prh47bridge]

They are doing so many things wrong here.

They must allow her to attend antenatal appointments. They cannot insist on her using her holiday allowance for this.

They must conduct a risk assessment for a pregnant employee, even if the employee does not request it.

They cannot reduce her salary without her agreement.

Unless her contract has a flexibility clause, they cannot change her working hours without her agreement.

Your daughter needs to consult a lawyer who specialises in employment law. If she has legal cover on her home insurance, they should be able to help. On the information posted here, she is clearly a victim of pregnancy discrimination. I would strongly encourage her to follow this through. Employers who behave like this need to learn that it is unacceptable.

[Propertylover]

@Livelovebehappy that is appalling I suggest she also looks to see if her house or car insurance has legal cover. Sadly she is going to need legal advice.

Out of curiosity is your daughter entitled to Occupational or just Statutory maternity pay? The reason for asking is because there is an 8 week period which is used to calculate the higher rate SMP.

[Livelovebehappy]

I'm just so angry that this is happening. Her boss has even asked her to help out with some interviews theyre doing on friday for staffing, whilst having told her she's demoted?! And haven't even given her reasons for demotion. Never any performance issues raised whilst working there. No car or home legal cover I'm afraid. Will wait to see how her conv with ACAS and pregnant/screwed go. Thanks again. You've all been really helpful.

[Propertylover]

@Livelovebehappy meant to say make sure your daughter has a timeline and gathers evidence. There must be a paper trail to explain the demotion.

I suggest your DD gets advice asap and lodges a grievance about the demotion, the loss of salary etc. and includes maternity & pregnancy discrimination. This is the relevant section https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/18

[Livelovebehappy]

@Propertylover

@Livelovebehappy meant to say make sure your daughter has a timeline and gathers evidence. There must be a paper trail to explain the demotion.

I suggest your DD gets advice asap and lodges a grievance about the demotion, the loss of salary etc. and includes maternity & pregnancy discrimination. This is the relevant section https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/18

Thank you. Yes, she’s been keeping emails and conversations documented. Regarding the demotion and ante natal issues, she has sent an email to her boss today to ask for clarification around having to take holidays for antenatal classes and not being made aware of any performance issues previously, and copied in HR.

[trippingthelightfantastic1]

Maternity Action are also great and can provide advice and assistance. They have lots of information sheets including for pregnancy rights:

https://maternityaction.org.uk/know-your-rights/

Her manager sounds unhinged TBH and not fit to run a business. Doubly scary given it is a business supporting vulnerable people. Under her contract with the LA the employer will be expected to adhere to all relevant law including around employment.

Her manager MUST complete a maternity risk assessment. It is not optional. This is critical in relation to the existing employment arrangement and any proposed change. They cannot change her hours (the amount per shift or working pattern) without her agreement or without a risk assessment given she is pregnant. Your daughter should make clear in writing that she does not agree to these change and will not follow them (unless she is happy to make the changes).

An employee that is pregnant or on maternity leave has greater employment rights and protection to ensure an employer does not discriminate against them. This includes protection from being demoted, disciplined etc due to being pregnant (or on mat leave).

[Livelovebehappy]

@trippingthelightfantastic1

Maternity Action are also great and can provide advice and assistance. They have lots of information sheets including for pregnancy rights:

https://maternityaction.org.uk/know-your-rights/

Her manager sounds unhinged TBH and not fit to run a business. Doubly scary given it is a business supporting vulnerable people. Under her contract with the LA the employer will be expected to adhere to all relevant law including around employment.

Her manager MUST complete a maternity risk assessment. It is not optional. This is critical in relation to the existing employment arrangement and any proposed change. They cannot change her hours (the amount per shift or working pattern) without her agreement or without a risk assessment given she is pregnant. Your daughter should make clear in writing that she does not agree to these change and will not follow them (unless she is happy to make the changes).

An employee that is pregnant or on maternity leave has greater employment rights and protection to ensure an employer does not discriminate against them. This includes protection from being demoted, disciplined etc due to being pregnant (or on mat leave).

Edited

Thank you for this. I’ve forwarded her the link. My daughter has loved working there, and had a very good and respectful relationship with them. It’s just so bizarre that she’s done a 360. The business has very recently grown and I suspect the timing of my daughters mat leave has fallen badly for them. She’s stood her ground today refusing to accept the demotion, but has been threatened with dismissal if she isn’t prepared to take the new role (along with substantial pay cut). She’s been talking with Acas today. She also had an appointment with her midwife today (which she has had to take as annual leave), who has noted the situation on her records, and told her if she needs the notes for any action in the future, to just let her know.

[trippingthelightfantastic1]

She might well have a case for constructive dismissal but she should get legal advice first.

[prh47bridge]

@Livelovebehappy

Thank you for this. I’ve forwarded her the link. My daughter has loved working there, and had a very good and respectful relationship with them. It’s just so bizarre that she’s done a 360. The business has very recently grown and I suspect the timing of my daughters mat leave has fallen badly for them. She’s stood her ground today refusing to accept the demotion, but has been threatened with dismissal if she isn’t prepared to take the new role (along with substantial pay cut). She’s been talking with Acas today. She also had an appointment with her midwife today (which she has had to take as annual leave), who has noted the situation on her records, and told her if she needs the notes for any action in the future, to just let her know.

Someone should tell them that when you are in a hole you should stop digging. Telling anyone they will be sacked unless they take a demotion and a 50% pay cut is almost certain to be unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal. Saying that to a pregnant woman is even more stupid.

[ChateauMargaux]

SMP will be calculated based on weeks 17 to 26 .. if she has already passed week 26, she will qualify for SMP and any subsequent reduction in salary will not affect her SMP.

You state that there is an HR function.. she should get in touch with them straight away... setting out her concerns / questions..
1: Paid time off for antenatal care
2: Risk assessments for overnight stays
3: Change in role resulting in 50% pay cut
4: Change in shifts without consultation
5: Clarification on terms of Maternity Leave and Pay

[Livelovebehappy]

@ChateauMargaux

SMP will be calculated based on weeks 17 to 26 .. if she has already passed week 26, she will qualify for SMP and any subsequent reduction in salary will not affect her SMP.

You state that there is an HR function.. she should get in touch with them straight away... setting out her concerns / questions..
1: Paid time off for antenatal care
2: Risk assessments for overnight stays
3: Change in role resulting in 50% pay cut
4: Change in shifts without consultation
5: Clarification on terms of Maternity Leave and Pay

Thank you. She’s only at week 19. The reason she hasn’t involved HR at this stage is that she feels they are working mainly for the employer, and has in fact had some calls coming through her this week from HR asking to speak with her manager, so something is happening, as it appears her manager may be seeking their advice and guidance. The good thing this last couple of days is that the manager hasn’t spoken to her (manager runs the business remotely), but I suspect after her last meeting with my daughter when she stood her ground, that she is possibly trying to get advice from HR. From reading up on constructive dismissal, where this might be heading, it seems that the end result if daughter is successful won’t mean she gets her role back (not that she would want that) and neither would she get recompensed for her lost salary and SMP.

[Propertylover]

@Livelovebehappy i agree HR work for the business but their key job is to minimise risk.

The manager poses a risk to the business by not correctly applying employment legislation.

If your daughter tells HR, if they are any good, they will advise the manager to back off.

[Livelovebehappy]

@Propertylover

@Livelovebehappy i agree HR work for the business but their key job is to minimise risk.

The manager poses a risk to the business by not correctly applying employment legislation.

If your daughter tells HR, if they are any good, they will advise the manager to back off.

Thank you. She had sent an email to her manager in response to the one advising her she had been demoted, and had copied in HR, as I told her the same, that if HR saw the message they would maybe advise her manager that she was dealing inappropriately. We will see.

[prh47bridge]

From reading up on constructive dismissal, where this might be heading, it seems that the end result if daughter is successful won’t mean she gets her role back (not that she would want that) and neither would she get recompensed for her lost salary and SMP.

A successful claim for constructive dismissal consists of a basic award and a compensatory award. Assuming your daughter is under 41, the basic award is 1.5 weeks pay for each year she has worked there. The compensatory award is often much larger and is for losses that have been suffered including loss of wages and loss of future wages. This includes lost SMP. So, she would be recompensed for lost salary and SMP.

[Livelovebehappy]

@prh47bridge

From reading up on constructive dismissal, where this might be heading, it seems that the end result if daughter is successful won’t mean she gets her role back (not that she would want that) and neither would she get recompensed for her lost salary and SMP.

A successful claim for constructive dismissal consists of a basic award and a compensatory award. Assuming your daughter is under 41, the basic award is 1.5 weeks pay for each year she has worked there. The compensatory award is often much larger and is for losses that have been suffered including loss of wages and loss of future wages. This includes lost SMP. So, she would be recompensed for lost salary and SMP.

Ah, thank you. Yes, just checked the source i was using and missed the compensatory part. The manager messaged her yesterday evening to carry out a managerial task today, despite her manager sending a message at the beginning of the week to say she was demoting her. She has also confirmed she is coming into the office later, so we will see what is going to happen.