Child's surname advice needed

[Pencilmein]

Maybe you can offer some advice?

My baby daughter has my surname, as this was my preference. Her father, who is not my partner and wasn't at the time she was born, is pressuring me to change her name to include his surname in some form. There are no other children on either side and neither of us have ever been married.

I am not inclined to do so for a whole host of reasons.

1. Her 1st name is already a hyphenated name and I do not want a middle name on top(for example Elsa-Mae, Mary-Jane etc...)
   
2. I chose a pretty, feminine and simple name for her. It always gets so many compliments. We (my extended family) love it. Adding in his surname as a 'middle name' really won't trip off the tongue!
   
3. There would be so many documents and registrations to change
   
4. She will always be 'know as' my name anyway, as I am her main carer, so is it really worth all the hassle
   
5. I would like her to have a simple unfussy name that is the same as her mum (me!) and all her cousins. Surley I don't need to justify my choice to anyone?
   
   He is really becoming a pain now and upsetting me. He sends me constant emails and brings it up when he is visiting etc...
   
   Ultimately I do not want to change her name and unless I wake up one day not caring either way I am not going to let this happen.
   
   Can he force me? Or waste everyone's time trying? He seems to have endless resources to put into this. I am concentrating on looking after my daughter :)

[Pencilmein]

thanks Ephiny you are spot on.

I have been so open allowing him free access and to be included in family occasions. With this going on it will means he misses out on certain things and ultimatly she suffers

Can't believe how much time I have spent today gathering information and writing etc.... poor lamb just amusing herself- though a bit fed up now must say.

[Pencilmein]

Thought I'd post an update as the meadiation appointment recently took place. We could not reach an agreement over DD's name, so this went before a judge. He has set a date for each of us to submit a statment and then a hearing date. Judge said it would go one of 3 ways ( hyphenate the surname, insert his surname name as middle name or completly change surname) none of which I am happy about. Quite surprised he sugested the latter and wondering if it was in an effort to try an encourage me to accept one of the other choices. Still think the interpretation of PR isn't realistic. Making no mention to me of his desire to influence her surname at the time we registered the birth seems to not be a reason not to influence it now. Even at a cost to relationships all round.

Shame two inteligent people and a whole host a skilled professionals are having to spend time on this........ not a happy bunny.

[Collaborate]

If the judge committed himself to not maintaining the status quo, and this before a final hearing, you should consider asking the judge to recuse himself (play no further part) for having pre judged the outcome.

[AKissIsNotAContract]

It seems very unfair that the judge hasn't considered a fourth option of leaving her name as it is.

[Pencilmein]

thanks Collaborate, was a little odd I must say -
Unless the judge had taken the time to read the Caffcass report (preparred after a telephone converstaion with both of us) he'd have had very little background information. The caffcass mediator hadn't read it, I asked the usher for it when I arrived, -he said he hadn't had a chance to read it.
Anyone know how I go about making that request ( that he rescuse himself)?

[Collaborate]

You'd need to make an application. If you are acting in person the court might accept it from you in the form of a letter. Cafcass report based on a telephone conversation? Think about getting some representation for the final hearing.

[Pencilmein]

They are doing a further report having met us at the concilication appointment but the initial 'letter' was writen after a conversation by telephone. That is the one the Cadcass mediator had not read.
Thanks, will think about representation though would rather put the money in my daughters bank account.

[glitterkitten]

I'm going to go against the grain here and stick up for "dad". You conceived a child with him, you chose to bring his child into the world. you are full time carer for that child, but that doesn't grant you "ownership".

You state that you like the fact that your daughter has the same surname as you and your cousins. Fabulous. Now why is it so unreasonable that her own father wants to share a name with his daughter???!

you mention that your daughter is a baby- therefore she will not know the difference at this stage. the transition to the new name will be smoother.

I think you've got a touch of the "MY child and MY child alone" syndrome. your child is as much a part of your former partner than she is of you.

i think its great that a father wants to pass on his family name to his offspring. i think you could compromise here. for the sake of your daughter's future identity if nothing else.

[Takeresponsibility]

Glitterkitten

I think you have this spot on. Every child is 50% Mums genes and 50% Dads, all too much of this I don't want this for MY child so it wont happen. What if the judge decided - OK child lives with other parent and they make all of these decisions so the child does not have any of the OPs names would that be acceptable?

The words conciliation, representation and compromise are not being used in their correct context here methinks.

[Gonzo33]

I left my exh when my son was 8 months old. He legally has his fathers name. When he started school he was "Known as" fathers surname-mothers surname because that is what he wanted. He is still known as that at school, and on medical records. I must admit I would like to change his surname legally, but I recognise that this is for selfish reasons and is not fair on his father.

Your name does not determine who you become, your upbringing does.

[Pencilmein]

Glitterkitten appreciate your point of view. I am less happy about changing her name than I may have been if he was on board at that stage and wanted to be involved. I decided to have a child and he was very opposed to it -so the relationship failed from the point I became pregnant. Additionally he indicated he would not be in the UK long term so I was very unsure if she would ever really 'know' her Dad or how much she might see him as a baby.

I think given the circumstances at the time it was a reasonable thing to do.

He has made this issue the main priority sine November whilst I get to grips with bringing her up. His involvement has always been very limited and at the point at which I named her he made not indication he had any desire to influence her name. If he can flounce in a throw his legal + financial weight around with little regard for the impact it has on us I am naturally reluctant to play to his tune.

He never makes contact to see how she is and when he does visit it is sporadic and he is often late/tired/in a hurry (although to be fair he does enjoy his time with her once he is here). Nonetheless this makes me question his comitment and I can't help but think this is more a question of pride or ego than him thinking she will truly benefit from having his surname as well. I would much rarther wait till she is older and can make the choice herself.

Anyway the latest developement is that I have pretty much caved in as I can't bare the thought of this dragging on until September which is when the final hearing date is set.

[Gonzo33]

Pencilmein,

Sounds like you have had a horrible time with him. Don't feel too disheartened, when she grows up a lovely well rounded woman you can be proud that you did that all alone!

[Pencilmein]

thanks Gonzo33, wise words

[STIDW]

glitterkitten wrote;

"I'm going to go against the grain here and stick up for "dad". You conceived a child with him, you chose to bring his child into the world. you are full time carer for that child, but that doesn't grant you "ownership". 

You state that you like the fact that your daughter has the same surname as you and your cousins. Fabulous. Now why is it so unreasonable that her own father wants to share a name with his daughter???!

you mention that your daughter is a baby- therefore she will not know the difference at this stage. the transition to the new name will be smoother.

I think you've got a touch of the "MY child and MY child alone" syndrome. your child is as much a part of your former partner than she is of you. 

i think its great that a father wants to pass on his family name to his offspring. i think you could compromise here. for the sake of your daughter's future identity if nothing else."


It isn't helpful being judgmental. Playing devil's advocate here but neither is a father granted "ownership" of a child. Just because it's unconventional doesn't mean it's unreasonable that a mother wants to share a name with her daughter. How do you know the mother has a touch of the "MY child" syndrome (as you put it) and the father hasn't and has the best interests of the child at heart?



This is the opinion of one judge;

"It is a matter of great sadness to me that it is so often assumed and even sometimes argued that father's need that outward and visible link in order to retain their relationship with and commitment to their child. That should not be the case. It is a poor sort of parent whose interest in and commitment to his child depends upon that child bearing his name. After all, that is a privilege not enjoyed by many mothers even if they are not living with the child. They have to depend upon other more substantial things.' - Hale LJ



The bottom line is if the family had lived together as a family unit the child's sense of identity with their father would be important. When parents are unmarried and a father never lived with the mother it is difficult to demonstrate that it is in a child's best interests to change a surname because it is confusing and disrupts the identity and security so the father is in a weak position.

[STIDW]

[Pencilmein]

.......this is still dragging on. Final hearing in Noveber. ;-0

[Chocol8]

Pencilmein, when is the final hearing scheduled for?

Personally we gave my child a double barrelled surname as he was born prior to our marriage. However, things did not work out and he was violent toward me in front of our child and an alcoholic. DS was about 1 when i asked him to leave.

At primary school, he was known by his double barrelled surname but as time went on my ds began to write just his first surname (mine). When he was old enough to understand, i asked if he would like to omit his father's name (just at school) and he said yes.

It has continued to be this way since then as he requested this change in writing to his school and this has continued through to secondary school.
He is still known officially on his prescriptions, his bank account and passport etc as his double barrelled surname. When he is older, he may again choose to incorporate his father's name but he has not seen his father for nearly 6 years and therefore this plays a part.

I do feel that your xp should have stated from the beginning his intent at having his surname in there and that this is more of a control issue.

You can always 'lose' his name later on as my son has done. Then your daughter can make her own choice like my son, when she is older.

Good luck in court, please let us know how you get on.

[hocuspontas]

I hope you have just gone for his name as a middle name and left the surname alone. How annoying for you that he's made a big thing over a name!

[racetobed]

How utterly, utterly, ridiculous.

Parenting is not just a noun, it is a verb. If the mother is the main carer, then the father should show some respect and back the fuck down. She is clearly the main parent here, not him. It's not about genes, it's about day to day care and responsibility.

Even if he had stated at the beginning that he wanted his surname, the mother's preference should overrule this. They were not in a relationship, so that is his hard cheese.

Glitterkitten, unless you are a man (which is increasingly the case on these boards, becuase men just can't BEAR to have a women-focused, women-run forum) then I don't understand you a jot. Women have suffered generations of misogny and patriarchy, yet suddenly you want to give away the ONLY area in which we currently have any power - our biological role in gestation and lactation of children. I am all for every child carrying their mother's name - surely it's one small step towards addressing male ascension?

[yummymumsie]

I'm really surprised by this thread. My children are 'known as' my surname and legally by their fathers name totally through there own choice, they also call their father by his name and never call him Dad. My ex has been taking me to court for nearly 2 years over contact as the children refuse to see him and now have to be dragged kicking and screaming to a contact centre for an unpleasant 30 mins. He has a specific issue also in that he wants the children to be known as his name and not at all by mine. The situation is down to his own treatment of the children and I have always encouraged the contact as I feel that it would be far better for the children to have a positive relationship with their father than this awful situation we're in now. Unfortunately leopards don't change their spots and he is still the same spiteful, selfish, controlling idiot he was when I left. He doesn't write to them or go to parents eves or infact show any concern, all he does is take me to court and he can't even be bothered to turn up for some of the contact sessions. He does naff all except try to make our lives unlpleasant. So how is pencilmeins ex allowed to take her to court (and sounds as though he has a reasonable chance) over this when I have been told that I have no chance of even getting their names double barrelled which seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me. I've tried to speak to the children about changing their name and they get very upset however hard I try to put a positive spin on it. Good luck pencilmein, I hope you can put this behind you soon