September/October IVF

[WineWinner]

Hey,

I've had my appointment through finally to start my first round of IVF. Our consultation is September and hoping if we start on CD21 (no idea if we will, just what I'm presuming from research) then we will be good to start just after the middle of the month. Anyone else the tentatively waiting for a September start?

[AniSL]

Thanks Crittertamer, I have barely noticed the days until today but only have to wait until Saturday to take a test.

Sorry to hear what you are going through, hopefully the bleed has little to do with the pregnancy fingers crossed. Praying for you and your twins

[CritterTamer]

@AniSL - good luck to you - I hope the TWW passes quickly for you!

I'm 18 weeks with twins at the monent following our cycle, but worried I might be about to lose it after a red bleed on Saturday (just a few hours after a gender scan where everything looked fine!).

[AniSL]

Hi Ladies

Just thought I would say hi to you all and hope you are all doing well. Finally had my FET this month so have 2 5 day blasts on board. OTD is 26th so heres hoping

[LopeyLopez]

Thanks @ginandtonicformeplease. Yes, I have lots of protein powder and when I was stimming each time had a shake every day. Need to make sure I fit more of them in during normal days too.

Does anyone else find that with eating all these nuts / seeds / protein shakes, their daily calorie intake is getting a bit crazy?! I find I have so many fertility "extras" to fit in that I barely have any calories left for real meals....!!

[ginandtonicformeplease]

@LopeyLopez My nutritionist recommended protein powder to sufficiently up the levels of protein. I ended up also buying milkshake flavourings and putting it in milkshakes to disguise it! Whey powder I think it was called (we still have half a sack left), just got it off amazon.

[LopeyLopez]

Thank you. I will ask 👍❤️🤞

[CritterTamer]

@Lopeylopez - the testosterone gel prescribed by the consultant will do the same thing as DHEA but is much stronger (they would only prescribe it for one month) and more effective. Yes it caused mild acne, but it’s only for one month, and in honesty the acne that pregnancy is now causing me is 100 times worse! It did also cause a little bit more hair to fall out than normal but again, it’s only one month.

My AMH was not low (for my age) at 10.4 and the consultant did not mention AMH level when discussing the testosterone gel - just that there was evidence that it improved egg/embryo numbers and quality in us older ladies. I think older ladies do benefit more from testosterone supplementation and it’s nit really needed for patients in their 20s and early thirties.

If you are self funding then there’s definitely no reason you couldn’t at least ask about it, and it was very inexpensive - I didn’t even notice the cost of the one month supply on top of the bill for all the other drugs.

[LopeyLopez]

Sorry @CritterTamer can I just ask, did you have low AMH to be prescribed testosterone? Because looking online it seems for testosterone or DHEA to be recommended you should have low AMH otherwise you can risk making things worse re: egg quality. My AMH is not low but was normal "for my age" when tested - which could mean that in the great scheme of things it is relatively low, as my age is not low!!

I have seen lots of DHEA to buy online but I am a bit wary, in case it makes things worse. You need to know baseline testosterone levels in order to correctly supplement I think. I am unsure.... and it has bad side effects, like acne and greasy skin and hair?!!?! Hmmmm...

[LopeyLopez]

Thanks @CritterTamer that's really useful info.

I think this hit me so hard this time because - as well as being the second attempt and no better than the first, and one step closer to "the end" - I felt I already had been doing everything I could. Living like a saint, giving up all the naughties, taking all the advice.....so it was a real slap in the face. My eggs should have been like queens with all the work I'd been putting into them, but they were still awful!

So now I am seeking that little bit extra that I can do, because to do nothing more and try again will be a waste of time. I already treat "it starts with the egg" as my bible!! As @Trying2bemum says, I need to throw the kitchen sink at this if I am going to bother st all!

I am also vegetarian but looking at my macros on MyFitbessPal my protein uptake is fine. Just not great RELATIVE to my carbs, as I said. Basically my carbs each day are too high - or make up too high a percentage of my total food. I guess four eggs a day is one way to sort that!! Wow, that is commitment! Something for me to try. Also I am hoping the "less sugar" will help, as well as helping manage the highs and lows of blood sugar, which can be detrimental to hormone levels and egg health. As we all know sugar is just complex carbs, so one way to keep the carbs at bay is to banish it.

Testosterone sounds interesting. I had not heard of it being used in fertility treatment for egg quality until you mentioned it first on here, weeks ago. You got great results with it. I am not sure how open my doctor is about these things. It is primarily an NHS clinic although I have always been self-funded and so a private patient. I guess as I am paying I should demand more input and not be afraid to ask about these things (which I have been guilty of in the past). After all, it's my treatment, my body, my money, my last chance...I should ask.

What about DHEA? Also a hormone treatment, like testosterone. Also used to improve egg quality. Has anyone used it / heard anything good or bad about it? Again, not sure how open my doc would be to me suggesting this. But I will try.

Thanks for replying. I am like an info hungry hound at the moment...!

[CritterTamer]

@Lopeylopez - whilst I didn’t follow a specific high protein low carb diet, one of the changes I made in the 3 months between my cycles was vastly upping my protein intake (I’m vegetarian and was really getting very little before). I aimed to eat 4 eggs per day where i could, and are lots of nuts, lentils and yoghurts. I also switched out standard pasta for lentil or chickpea pasta.

If you do decide to go for another cycle you could speak to your consultant about testosterone supplementation. They recommended it to me because there is evidence that it increases both the quantity and quality of eggs and embryos produced during ivf. I was reluctant but did use it in the end and did see a dramatic improvement in both the number and quality of eggs and embryos. It has to be used for a month before your cycle starts so ask about it in plenty of time if that’s wha5 you decide to do.

[LopeyLopez]

Thank you @Trying2bemum . Unfortunately i'm already doing all this stuff....which is great, but it does mean that it didn't really have much of an impact for me. Been on ubiqunol for 9 months now. No alcohol or caffeine for 6 months, and even minimum before that. We're both (myself and partner) on good multivits for conception and numerous other supplements as recommended by a nutritionist.

The only thing slightly different is this high protein/low carb thing. I have checked and my protein consumption is good - that was already recommended to me by the nutritionist. So it is from 60-90g a day. But as a proportion of my total intake, and compared with carbs, it is not so high. It is really really hard to get protein up to 40% of your daily food intake...I have tried wiggling around with different foods on the MyFitnessPal app (which is great) and it is so hard to get enough calories from protein whilst also keeping carbs super low. It means for example if you have oats for breakfast, which I often do, then no more simple carbs all day. So no bread, no pasta, no rice! Difficult.

I was just wondering whether people thought it was worth trying really, and what they thought of the studies....?

With the blastocyst stuff, I know you can get pregnant from 3 day transfers and morulas etc, but the fact is they must at some point turn into blastocysts then inside you, as that's an essential stage of the embryo development before becoming a foetus. I can't seem to make embryos that are capable of doing this, so something is seriously lacking in my body / eggs / the egg environment. This is what I am trying to influence / change for the better with healthy lifestyle. I am just wondering if it actually is possible to make a difference or not.... my attitude at the moment is, "i can but try". One last go. I used to think I would stop this ttc craziness when I was 40; call it a day then. But now that is only two years away I am thinking, maybe 42...?! I just don't know how long I can go on with the constant up/down disappointment/hope rollercoaster.

All the best for a healthy pregnancy anyway; you so deserve it after going through all this crap!! Xxx

[Trying2bemum]

@lopeylopez the number of IVF cycles someone is willing to do is very personal, so I would never give advice on this.

I would say though, that you don't necessarily need blasts to make a pregnancy. I see many people with successful pregnancies from transfers at day 3 on the instagram ttc community. I guess it would be a case of how many embryos you create, and the clinic being able to pick which ones are most likely to make it.

High protein is definitely really important - building blocks of life! I would recommend you take ubiquinol for at least three months too. Try and get a copy of 'It starts with the egg' from the library for some reading up on egg quality prep.

Get your fella on a good fertility supplement and plenty of nuts. Knock the booze / caffeine on the head.

If you are going to go for it again then I totally understand you wanting to throw the kitchen sink at it. And know you did everything you could.

I wish you every luck xxx

[LopeyLopez]

And this one....

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.reproductivemedicineinstitute.com/blog/2013/06/18/counting-carbs-to-conceive-130164/amp

[LopeyLopez]

www.fertilityfactchecker.com/protein-carbs-increased-ivf-success-rates/

Not the exact link I was looking for, but you get the general idea....about the protein increasing blast formation and pregnancy rate.

[LopeyLopez]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Wonderful news @Trying2bemum . That has made my day! You have given me hope.

My embryos were not good either. In fact I have never had any make it to blastocyst. My body just can't make blastocysts by the sounds of things....which obviously is a prerequisite to pregnancy so kind of essential.

I am leaning towards just one more round of IVF, so I can say in my heart I did everything I could: the full three goes, as recommended by NICE for achieving pregnancy. I know they will try to convince me not to bother though....even the letter after my first failed attempt was very negative, so goodness knows what this next one will say. So I have to convince the doctors that it is worthwhile, for them to let me try one more time with my own eggs.

I know they say the definition of stupid is doing something repeatedly the same but expecting a different outcome....so I know I have to change something before I do another round (this is presuming they will let me). So far the extra thing I have done is I have given up refined sugar. This has been really hard for me. Much harder than booze, caffeine, etc. But it is going ok so far. Still having fruit and dried fruit, so plenty of sugar still making it's way to my body, but at least no highs and lows of blood sugar caused by sweets and cakes and chocolate. I have read that this - poorly controlled blood sugar - can mess with fertility and egg quality. I am still keeping up with all the other things and supplements etc.

I also read a study about the powers of a high protein/very low carb diet. I will look for the link so you can see what you think. Apparently when followed for three months before IVF, for groups of women (including one group slightly older, at 37), this diet radically increased the number of blastocysts formed through treatment, and hence increased pregnancy rate. So I am thinking of this. I know it's not massively healthy long term. And it will be HARD to stick to, no doubt. But I am thinking, it's worth it, for 3-4 months only of my whole life, surely, for my last shot....? What do you think??

Still drives me mad how we have to jump through all these hoops and deny ourselves to reach our goals whilst others get pregnant even by accident.....but I know that's the annoying truth that's always going to be there for us, and I just have to accept it as old news now. Still burns though.

[Kay2705]

Thanks @CritterTamer and congrats on your pregnancy :) pray all goes well for everyone else on this thread

[CritterTamer]

@Kay2705 sorry to hear you’re going through this - this whole process seems so very unfair and even cruel at times. I really hope you have better luck with your IVF cycle when it starts 😊

[Kay2705]

Hi @Peanut1980 I took the pills to start the process yesterday as it was a mmc and boy was that tough. They said i may bleed for the next 2 weeks but getting there I think I've come to terms with it. I'm off work all week but going back on Monday. It's great you got a bfp on your first cycle, so this is good sign for the next one.

This was my first ever bfp and pregnancy and literally got it before I was about to start the injections for ivf. I was so happy but here I am! Life is cruel isn't it but I'm trying to believe God has a plan for everything

[CritterTamer]

@Peanut1980 - ive been thinking of you. Glad you are ok and looking towards your bpnext cycle. I think it’s really positive that you had a BFP on your first attempt - it shows you have no issue with implantation so its very possible you will get a BFP on your next try.
@Lopeylopez - glad you’ve gotten some time off work to get you head straight - i hope you manage to sort out your stress issues. I had massive work stress issues prior to my first unsuccessful IVF cycle, so i quit that job and went back to s9mething far less stressful and less hours and lo and behold next cycle was successful - i think stress has a massive impact on our fertility.
@pinkfootedgoose - amazing news - welcome to the twins club!
@trying2bemum - more amazing news - congrats!

[ginandtonicformeplease]

@Trying2bemum Congratulations, that's fantastic!

@LopeyLopez The failure this time hit me harder than ever before - I worked from home on the day I tested but got no work done, just in floods of tears. I have no idea where we're going next on our TTC path, but what I do know is that you've got to be kind to yourself.

[Trying2bemum]

Congratulations @PinkFootedGoose that's wonderful news. I can imagine your heart must be in your mouth a bit but I'm keeping everything crossed both babies thrive.

I'm so sorry you're feeling so low @LopeyLopez. My second IVF fail absolutely floored me. I couldn't believe I'd been through all that again and come out with nothing. Glad you've got this time off - take very good care of yourself

Today was my OTD and I got a BFP. My first ever in three years of TTC and my third fresh cycle of IVF. I'm in total disbelief and keep crying.

Our embryos weren't the best - we had a morula and a 2CC blast. So you just never know. I had written this cycle off from the moment of transfer, and was planning next steps.

It's very early days but for now I'm just grateful to get this far.

Much love to you all. Infertility and IVF are extremely tough

[Guio]

Hi @LopeyLopez, I really sorry you feel that way but I recognize myself on what you say with the difference that I have just started my first IVF. I went to the GP as I had a lot of anxiety and when I said the symptoms she wanted to sign me off for 2 weeks but I thought that I was going to be worse at home...she told me to call her anytime so I will do if needed.i think self-care is very much important and what you have gone through is a lot so take your time.My job is horrible and for the same reason like you I want to stay because of the maternity leave but if it doesn't work I will move on.xxxx

[PinkFootedGoose]

@LopeyLopez you poor thing! IVF is extremely stressful, I don't think your body or mind knows whether it is coming or going.

Haven't been signed off with stress myself but I have managed someone who was - as a manager I can say I just wanted them to look after themselves. I could see the anxiety around how being off would affect them was contributing to the stress, it was a vicious cycle. Nobody other than me knew the reason for the sick leave so it did not affect relationships at work. A year on and they are thriving and on my list for a performance related pay increase. So please try not to worry about that on top of everyone else. Xx

[LopeyLopez]

Wow great update @PinkFootedGoose . Sorry to hear your news @Kay2705 and @Peanut1980 but you seem to have everything under control, and be coping well under the circumstances.

I am not doing so well: a week after the negative and second failed cycle, I pretty much flipped and couldn't go into work. I actually missed no work at the time, and only the minimum during the actual IVF Cycle. Called in sick, booked a GP appointment with the intention of disclosing everything and seeing what they said. I actually wrote everything down on an A4 piece of paper (and it filled it!) so that I wouldn't forget to mention things....I've been having so many symptoms - both physical and mental - that I can't remember them all. Basically they are all as a result of stress.

Well at the GPs I ended up crying all the way through the app! And there I was worrying beforehand that I would not look "ill" enough or be taken seriously. The result was I was signed off sick for stress and anxiety for two weeks, and given a counselling app. But due to waiting lists it is not til late December!!

Currently wallowing a bit at home but slowly getting things done and getting back to normal. It is a relief to not be at work. As well as the infertility and IVF work is contributing to a huge amount of stress in my life atm. I am seriously considering changing jobs. One main reason for sticking with this one full time was for mat pay, but seen as it's looking like I won't ever be needing that anyway....I may as well leave and find something less stressful.

Has anyone ever been signed off work for stress, and if so what later implications did it have? I have no experience of this. I've never missed more than a couple of days in a row before. I've read it can be quite frowned upon (which it shouldn't be, but with it being mental health and not physical...there is still a lot of prejudice).

I still haven't had my follow up app about the IVF fail, where no doubt they will tell me not to bother with another round. That's partly why I'm dreading it and why I haven't booked a date yet. Feels like the end of the road for me, and I'm not yet ready to accept it.

Hang on in there everyone; let's hope 2019 brings more luck! X

[Peanut1980]

@pinkfootedgoose I’m so pleased the scan went well and there’s two in there. Hopefully the smaller one will catch up. I’ve heard of lots of twins having a smaller one but being fine so fingers crossed for you lovely. Keep us posted xxxxxxx