IVF for the last time (probably)

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

I'm in the middle of my 6th and probably last cycle of IVF. I've also had one FET. I have a DD conceived on our 3rd cycle so I know we're very lucky. I'm nearly 42 so if this doesn't work we won't do it again. Anyone else had success in a similar situation?

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Hi there - this thread is a little old. [[https://www.mumsnet.com/conception/ivf
If you want to find out about IVF, we’ve got more information here]]. MNHQ

[BluntPoster]

Hi guys not sure why or what i'm doing right now. I'm on round 5 of my ivf cycle with a really low amh.
Had all the drugs and scan has shown no eggs and i mean zilch nada. Doctor has given me four more days of drugs to see but it's weird. I started ivf when i was 33 with 2-3 eggs and now im 38 almost 39. Usually only get 2 or 1 egg and nothing took so far. This was meant to be a last ditch effort but so far no eggs at all seen on scan. What do guys recommend- do i call it a day? We have MfI too. I feel like giving up now but deeply wanted a second child. I don't know if i have emotional energy to deal with it. Also my cycle has been weird coz i took lots of progesterone cycle before as went on holiday. I did have a bleed after it and so did the ivf the cycle after.... if this cycle cancels out ? Do i give it one last shot in the dark? Thoughts ....

[Shellster52]

TFC in QLD must have different protocol than the TFC here in Vic, as the TFC here only does a day 2 transfer.

I will be hoping along with you Grin. You've been through so much just to get to this point of being able to make it to transfer stage. You certainly deserve a break.

[GrinAndTonic]

TFC only does three day transfers and my only one was a four cell'er. It wasn't the best option but it was our only option. Four cell ones can work and that is what I am hoping for.

[Shellster52]

Interesting that ICSI procued 0 fertilisation and IVF gave better success. I guess with IVF, it enables the sperm that is naturally the strongest and most genetically viable to be able to penetrate the egg as happens in natural conception, unlike ICSI where they can only go by the shape they see under the microscope.

I just assumed it was a day 5 transfer because you said you had 'one decent blast' transferred. Aren't the embryos usually between 8-12 cells on day 3 and only starting to form into a blasocyst on day 5? Or was your embryo a super fast grower?

[GrinAndTonic]

I had a three? day transfer. Pick up was Friday morning and transfer was Monday morning. Blood test is the 7th as there is no where for me to do it on the 5th or 6th (weekend).

I had four collected, three fertilised (two abnormally) so only got the one to place with.

We thought we would try a straight IVF cycle this time. We have done a fresh sperm and ICSI cycle, a frozen sperm and ICSI cycle both with failed fertilisation so doing fresh and IVF meant we covered all the options.

I don't mind the pessaries. I find them better then the crinone. Plus it gives me the excuse to lie around and do nothing for 30 minutes :-)

[Shellster52]

Okay, so you still did IVF without the ICSI despite 0 fertilisation last time. So nothing frozen then as a plan B?

Interesting that you had a day 5 transfer with TFC - they do a day 2 transfer here in Melbourne. That's one of the reasons I changed to Monash because after 3 embryos failed to take on day 2, I wanted to leave them in the petri dish longer to see if the issue was the embryo dying before it got to implantation stage, or if they were making it to day 5 and it was the implantation part that was failing. Also, I wondered if the reason they only do day 2 was because their culture medium was cheaper and they couldn't survive to day 5. At Monash, I had to sign a form acknowledging that the culture contained albumin (a blood product) which I did not have to do at TFC.

I personally didn't mind the pessaries so much - I suppose because of my 11 IVF attempts I only had 4 transfers because the other cycles were either cancelled before egg collection due to poor response, or the embryo died before transfer day. So I was just happy to be in the two week wait on those 4 occasions out of 11 attempts. My due date is 26.03.15.

You do sound busy with uni and moving - bet you'll still find time to obsess while packing boxes - seems impossible not to!

[GrinAndTonic]

Hi Shell, we ended up staying with TFC. It was easier. Im still not 100% happy with them and I considered changing to Life fertility.
DH started taking zinc and I was taking DHEA, L-arginine, L- Orthinine, Pregnenolone as well. Plus we did a straight IVF cycle with no ICSI. My egg/follicle numbers didn't increase though. So test date is the 7th so im just twiddling my thumbs and being grossed out by the pessaries. I have crinone too but the applicators just remind me of tampax applicator tampons that wierded me out when i was young. The good thing is that I have to uni assignments and a house to pack and move in the next two weeks so I am pretty well occupied.

When is your due date?

[Shellster52]

Lovely to hear from you Grin. Must have been so nerve wrecking in the lead up,waiting to see what would fertilise. What did they do different? And did you get more than one fertilise that made it to freeze? Must be reassuring that your little embryo made it all the way to blast stage so you know it has made it that far and all it has to do is implant.

Yes, I finally ended up pregnant - on my 11th IVF! I got a bit more back after hitting the safety net but I too was definitely still a lot out of pocket. I did my first four cycles with The Fertility Centre as they were cheaper. But I could start to see reasons why they were cheaper which I thought was compromising my success and I thought it better to do one proper go with a more expensive clinic rather than four failed attempts with TFC. So I moved on to Monash IVF. But turns out it took another 7 goes anyway - although only 4 resulted in egg collection as they other 3 I hardly produced any follicles and the cost of EC did not seem worth it for the slim chance of success. So it's been a rough ride and four years of hell but of course I am happy I persevered now.

What clinic did you end up with? I'm crossing, my fingers and whatever else I can for you Grin!

[GrinAndTonic]

Shell you are pregnant? Congratulations. I had no idea.
What clinic did you go through? I don't think we have any 100% fully medicare funded here. Im still out of pocket some money even with hitting the safety net.
We just got our first fertilisation EVER the the other day and had our one decent blast transferred on Monday. So fingers crossed!

[Shellster52]

Oh yes, I have heard of the cells themselves not being evenly sized - not sure what that means for embryo quality or if it implies some genetic issue.

Our IVF situations sound similar. I was always lucky enough if I just made it to transfer, let alone having something to freeze. Of my 11 IVF cycles, only 7 went ahead with EC as the response was too poor the other 4 cycles. Of the 7 egg collections, only 4 made it to embryo transfer.

I always wished for more eggs, but tried to convince myself it was quality over quantity, as I chugged down my supplements and was strict on my diet. But I was 35-38 while going through IVF so I guess it adds another stress doing through it at nearly 42. Do they give you any statistics of your chances?

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

My situation is now the same as most of the other cycles. Two transferred and nothing to freeze, only difference is the 2nd embryo not as quite as good as the other.

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

The hCG is in addition to the progesterone and I'm on prednisolone 15mg daily. Just a long wait now! When I said well defined, those are my words really. The embryologist thought it was also a 3 cell, not fragmented but not such even cell size. Looked a bit lumpy to me!

[Shellster52]

I was hoping for you that one or two of those smaller follicles had done some last minute growing to produce a mature egg but obviously not. So all focus is now on these two. I didn't realise embryo quality could be based on how 'well defined' they were - is that to do with them being a perfect circle shape or not? I always based mine on the number of cells and the level of fragmentation but this 'well defined' thing is new to me.

Three lots of hCG! Is that instead of progesterone suppositories? And a longer wait - what a killer!

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

Thank you!

[WinterBabyof89]

Just read your thread - hope all goes well for the test in mid December!! Everything crossed for you

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

Had 2 embryos transferred today, one was a good 3 cell, the other not quite so well defined. Only 3 of the 6 eggs were mature and only 2 fertilised so similar to scan prediction. I can't test until mid December as I'm having 3 lots of HCG. I'm going to have to try to forget about it for a while!

Hope all is still going well!

[Shellster52]

Six must be a relief after your last scan prepared you for only 2-3. Now the wait continues.

What day does your clinic do the transfer?

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

Egg collection was okay, they got six! There is at least one immature one but they'll ring tomorrow to let me know. I'm glad I went ahead with it anyway. As ever, husbands sperm is amazing so that's one less thing to worry about.

[Shellster52]

Yes, will find out soon enough - although a few days in the normal world is soon, but in IVF world a few days feels like forever when you're waiting for a daily update - how many eggs, then how many mature and fertilised, then how they are at day one, day two... each minute feels like an eternity while you're waiting for a phone call to update you!

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

I was thinking that perhaps the larger follicles are likely to be the best quality, just like you've said. Will find out soon enough!

[Shellster52]

I am more than happy to chat. I still feel more of an affinity with this IVF world and the ladies in it, rather than the pregnancy world that I am now in. I go to appointments and there are all these other pregnant ladies in the waiting room and I still find it quite confronting, even though I am now pregnant myself. I know how much I found Mumsnet my lifeline while I was doing IVF cycle after IVF cycle, so I am glad you find it helps you too.

Wow, so it wasn't that you started with less follicles due to being one year older. You still had 15, but it was just that only a few took the lead. I did read one article that said your first follicles to mature are the ones your body is naturally trying to select and we should not allow these to over mature for the sake of a few extra inferior smaller follicles to catch up. After having read this, I had one cycle where I had two larger follicles and three smaller ones. My Dr wanted to wait over the weekend for the smaller follicles to grow a bit more and even though they got 5 eggs, I only got one embryo that didn't make it to transfer. Of the other 4, one didn't fertilise, one fertilised abnormally and two broke apart with the ICSI process which the Dr said is what happens to over mature eggs and these were probably the larger two follicles. So I felt like I lost my best two eggs for the sake of three inferior ones and always wondered if the outcome would have been different had we done egg collection on the Friday like I asked and collected my first two eggs. So I certainly hope that proves true in your case and these first few to mature are the ones your body is naturally selecting as best quality/most likely to be genetically normal.

And I really hope that the 11mm follicles managed to grow an average of 2mm a day, making them 15mm by Wednesday and then likely to contain a mature egg so you get a couple more than expected.

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

Thank you, no need to feel guilty. I understand life goes on. Last cycle was a year ago. I have 15 follicles on the scan but 12 are 11mm or less so unlikely to be mature by Wednesday. The consultant didn't want to give me any longer because the womb lining is good now and I may lose the larger follicles without gaining any of the smaller ones. Thank you for chatting, it does help.

[Shellster52]

All is going well with me thank you. Although I feel guilty to be on here announcing I am pregnant and that it is going well when you are obviously feeling quite devastated. If you've never had less than 10 before, suddenly having only 2-3 must be quite a rude shock. Was your last IVF cycle some time ago? But I understand you pushing forward regardless as I know age is the enemy and it's better to get 2-3 younger eggs than 5-6 older ones at a later stage. Hope you're sleeping soundly now and wake up feeling better. xox.

[NinjaHaggisHunter]

Poor scan today, looks like 2 possibly 3 eggs. I've never had less than 10 before now :-(. Going ahead anyway as it's unlikely to be any better if we wait. Gutted!

I hope all is going well with you, you deserve it after 11 cycles!