Thin womb lining- what can help? Or just go for assisted conception?

[zumm]

Hi, I suspect part of the reason why it's taking me so long to conceive is that, now I'm 41, my womb lining is much thinner than when I was younger (periods now 3-4 days vs 6-7 days). I've had a scan and apparently the womb lining looked normal for 7 days (had scan on day 7). fsh levels, progesterone at day 21 all fine. But I know my body has changed (post d&c). I just wondered if anyone had any ideas of what I could do - medication to take or etc to help the womb lining. or whether just to go for ivf for max likelihood of falling pg. ...or whether there's something else I sd do first.

(PS I am currently on second cycle of - very low dose, private doctor prescribed - Clomid despite normal ovulation - and I worry since clomid can of course make the womb lining even thinner.)

Thanks v much for any feedback!

[helenlouisey]

Hi Zumm, I had a scan before we did IUI and then IVF and was told all was fine. I later found out that scans are not the best for detecting AS, you need to have an HSG to be sure there's no scarring. It was only after the fertility treatment didn't work that I had the HSG which showed AS. Are you close to London? I can recommend a couple of AS consultants who are rated as A list by the Ashermans Association, one works solely as a private doctor & the other is very difficult to get to see on the NHS. Just PM if you want any details and phone numbers etc or have any questions x

[zumm]

*(ERPC 15 months ago)

[zumm]

Shell - yes, let's keep in touch via PM. Massive good luck for your IVF cycle. Pl keep in touch with me over that too.

Helen - I was v concerned about Ashermans too - in fact I suspected that's what I had. I therefore went for a private scan and they said there is nothing wrong with my womb, no Ashermans (apparently) and everything looked fine for the cycle day. It's all very perplexing. The troubles all started after my ERPC though - although having said that, I am now 41 so ERPC or not, maybe thinning womb is what would be happening to me anyway. (RRPC 15 months ago.)

Having said all this, Helen, did you start your fertility treatment without being scanned - or did you have an initial scan that indicated you were Asherman free (only to later be shown this was not the case?).

[Shellster52]

Zumm, if you find anything that works particularly for you, I would be very interested to hear. I would be interested in how you find the Red Clover works for you, as SharpLily suggested. Would you mind if I PM you in case we lose contact through these threads just so that if you do find something that works well to thicken your lining, you can just reply to my PM so that I can try it too ? I am doing IVF next cycle and have enough Viagra just for my next IVF cycle and so obviously hoping like crazy that I won't need to worry about my lining any more after next cycle, but good to have a plan B just in case.

[helenlouisey]

Hi, if your womb lining has been thinner and periods lighter since an ERPC it might be worth investigating whether the ERPC has caused Ashermans (scarring in the uterus) some useful info here www.ashermans.org/home/

Fingers crossed it's not it, but I don't want you to spend £1'000s in fertility treatment which is never going to work till the AS is treated, (like we did!)

Best of luck x

[zumm]

Thanks Sharp - I'll go and do some Dr Google research into Red Clover! Congrats on your pregnancy and hope it all keeps going really well.

Part of me wonders whether I've messed up my period partly through a lot of self-medication of herbs (period started getting lighter after I took various fertile-aid type teas and herbs). BUT that may just have been coincidence (age related, say). My doc also advised against any herbs while on clomid, but since this is my last month of taking clomid (I think) then maybe next month… Thanks again!

[SharpLily]

Sorry for the delay, zumm, been busy! I had two early miscarriages and as my periods had been much lighter the last few years and I was 37 at the time, it seemed womb lining could be an issue. I started taking Red Clover (just ordered from Amazon) before anything else was done and straightaway my next period was heavier. Didn't have one after that to be able to judge as got pregnant that next month and am now 28 weeks and all looks good . There were no guarantees the Red Clover was a factor because we hadn't gone very far down the road of investigation and resolution but the doctor was pretty pleased with the result.

[Shellster52]

I have been off the alcohol for several months now. Used to drown my AF appearance sorrows with lots of alcohol. Was very tempted last night after a crap day at work but thanks for the timely reminder Nat. Managed to avoid. Gongrats on your efforts to zumm. I think if my next IVF fails, I am going to have that bucket of alcohol you speak of zumm!!

As for the HCG shot, I had a friend with PCOS who was on Clomid but still not ovulating. The first month they gave for the Clomid with the HCG, she ovulated and got pregnant. It's just to help the egg release from the follicle. When I do IVF, I take the shot exactly 36 hours before they retrieve my eggs, so the eggs have come away from the follicle (but hopefully not released yet into the tubes) and are easy to collect. But if your day 21 progesterone levels were fine, then it seems your body is ovulating naturally anyway.

[sharond101]

I believe the HCG shot triggers ovulation.

[naty1]

The hfea website has good info on it. Regarding success rates and treatments etc. i think they drop as you get older you might find iui is more successful as it doesnt require the numbers of eggs that ivf does. As you get older it is harder to stimulate lots of eggs. The advantage of ivf is you know that egg and sperm are at least fertilising.

[zumm]

were my god grrrl, it's hard - but you know how it goes. Well done! Shell - maybe we should give the T-total a go. I was out for dinner last night and - celebratory music pliz - didn't drink a drop (HARDDDDD). Giving up tea and coffee = also HAAAAARD.

Sharon - great news on DS :). The hgc shot - what exactly does it do? I wonder whether IUI is the next step (rather than straight into IVF) - but note that some people say ditch that step and jump to IVF (esp if limited amounts of cash!). But perhaps with the hgc shot you stand a greater chance - although I need to find out what that does exactly! [clearly clueless on IUI - maybe everyone has those shots?!)

Here's hoping that it all works out V SOON for all of us (then we'll celebrate in a year's time with a bucket of Champagne, ok shell :) )

[naty1]

I also saw something saying ivf can be more successful if you dont drink (either person) and i yhink for the couple months beforehand.

[werenotreallyhere]

Shellster, no alcohol, completely. It may not work for everyone! Good luck.

[Shellster52]

Werenotreallyhere, what do you mean by teetotal? Would like to try anything to get naturally heavier period.

[sharond101]

yes it did, first time. I have a beautiful 21 mo DS upstairs asleep. Just waiting for name to come up on list to try for No2.

[werenotreallyhere]

Honestly, the whole process, each month, was so stressful I almost needed a drink to get through it, and I didn't want to give up (small amounts) of booze because I was trying to not put too much pressure on it all (we'd been trying for a while) but it was really the only thing that worked. That was 3 years ago now . Good luck, it is so stressful, and so disappointing each month.

[zumm]

Were...I know I sd...have already given up tea & coffee ...but still drink (aside from 2ww). Argh. But thanks for the tip & congrats that's great news for you!

[werenotreallyhere]

I went teetotal and periods got heavier (and I got pregnant soon afterwards) almost immediately, mine also were a lot heavier when younger and had got very light

[zumm]

Sharon - did the IUI plus hcg work for you?
Shell - thanks that's v helpful. Current cycle - day 6 & I'm on less than the absolute minimum amounts (i.e. am on a 1/4 pill per day).
Not mad about the drug, I must admit (hot at night and last cycle severe mittleschmertz - could feel ovulation - new for me! Though last cycle I was on half a pill per day 2-6. And it made me quite angry :-) (not sure why the smiley but ah).

[Shellster52]

I am in Australia and initially thought that the Viagra pessaries were not available here either - only the pill form. I then discovered that I need to go to a compounding pharmacy where they can make them up. I had to get a script from my doctor.

I notice in your initial post, you ask if you think you should just go to IVF for max chance. Personally, I would get the ball rolling for IVF straight away. If you have been ovulating naturally and trying for 2 years, I can't see that taking Clomid to help you ovulate is the answer (although I hope for you it is!) How are you going with your current Clomid cycle?

[sharond101]

I had no cycle at all so can't compare with that one. I had gonal-f injections, clomid then an hcg shot during IUI.

[zumm]

Naty - I'm eating the 3 Brazil nuts (I forgot that was the reason why)... Did you find that has helped you? can't say its made any noticeable difference to me - yet!
I'm still v intrigued about the Viagra - just can't see a way of getting it in that form in the uk.

[naty1]

I took brazil nuts about 3 a day. Also i take pregnacare conception.

[zumm]

Oh Sharp, interesting! -Pl can you tell me about red clover? When did you start taking it in your cycle, for how long, and at what dose?

[zumm]

Had a look and I can't see a way of getting these pessaries in the UK. Any thoughts? (This is probably why my doctor dismissed it- or at least didn't take up the idea.)
I wonder if there's a second best - i.e. pill form viagra - but what would you do with the pill…?