Fatal failings in UK maternity care

[bubble99]

First off, can I say that I'm not an NHS basher. I am a Registered Nurse and I've had two fantastic deliveries on the NHS but my last delivery was horrendous. Awful to the extent that one of my healthy (7lb7oz) twin boys died during labour.

'The Times' today ran a front page article about failings in maternity/delivery care, and my particular view is that salaries are being withheld for key clinical staff, while funding seems to be limitless for layer upon layer of 9-5 middle managers with seemingly meaningless job titles and duties. I know that I'm not exactly a ray of sunshine on a Sunday evening for starting this thread but I'd be interested to hear your views.

[Moomin]

I'm really not experienced in the campaigning field but I'm just thinking about cases where there has been medical negligence and/or attempts to cover up, and these cases seem to start with publicity and gather momentum from there. People need a REAL case to make the issue seem relevant to them. I expect many people will have glanced up at the news items this morning and tut-tutted, partic those with families but the most attention will have been from women and families who have a)already suffered or b)are worried about their own future experiences. A new item like this is always made more widespread and relevant to many more if they can see the real-life suffering caused: REAL people, REAL names.

Sorry if this seems like exploitation of your own tragedy - I spose you are going to have to decide whether you want your story to be the one this campaign hangs on - whether you can face Bo's name being used in this way or whether you feel it will help his memory and help implement change.

[hunkermunker]

Bubble, I rather agree with Moomin. Today on the news I saw two mums with new babies at a hospital which had been in the report but cleaned up its act.

I think that to get more attention to the campaign, there needs to be a story which has had an unhappy ending - with the message being that there's still an awful lot that needs to be done.

Obviously it has to be your decision - and I think I'd be tempted to ask one of the MN journalists what they think (have any of them written pieces on this subject recently?).

You are a strong, intelligent, eloquent woman and can do this, but it's whether you want to or not - and God, if you don't, nobody could blame you. Can you talk to Susan Kramer and ask her whether she thinks it would help or hinder?

Good on you for writing to the senior midwife too - I'm sure she'll appreciate that. You're amazing xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[milward]

bubble99 - respect you for what you're doing to change things for the better. Go as public as you feel comfortable with.

[hub2dee]

bubb - I'm with the lactation people tomorrow, but you can call anytime Weds if you want to talk about how you might handle these different avenues. I'm 100% inexpert in this field, but if talking helps, and calm / logical scout-like skills are useful, I'm here.

Does anyone else on MN feel it is WAY too scary the number of horror stories (ranging in severity from 'very bad service' to 'death upon birth') we have amongst our community ? I mean, I doubt we are particularly unlucky IYSWIM... (although I acknowledge people with a bad birth experience may be more likely to seek out an Internet support network).

Yes, I know the vast majority of us have uneventful births, but I just can't believe how many MNers have posted with nightmare pg / birth stories with sour endings etc.

With a few people, I've looked back on their threads to see the joy of falling pg, and all the chit chat on an antenatal thread and then caught up on a birth which has gone wrong etc. etc.

I find it deeply scary myself. Just horrible.

[hub2dee]

Just thought of something wacky too...

This 'no men on the postnatal / labour ward after 10pm' type of thing, which seems to be common practice everywhere... (unless woman in advanced established labour, about to give birth)....

I wonder if it may be because if your partners / dh were around, and service / attention etc. was deficient / monitoring wasn't being done / mws or drs were running between cases etc. all hell would break loose ?

I know I would become unusually aggressive and pushy and generally not to be f*cked with if DW was in trouble IYSWIM.

(I'm also not trying to stir trouble when a dp / dh hasn't been able to help / make things happen - the men are also 'squashed' somewhat by the system).

I'm not trying to be sexist, or imply women giving birth can't look out for themselves, but it is a time when it is recognised that someone may need to advocate on your behalf, and maybe be in a better position to do so because they're not off their face on pain / drugs, or scared etc. etc.

Hmmm... did I make my point or just waffle rubbish ?

[chicagomum]

i agree with your last post hub2dee if my dh had been allowed to stay around what happened to me wouldn't have happened (btw congrats on the addition to you're family - have seen the photos- i believe she was bborn at the same hospital as my dd)

[CarolinaMoon]

Hub you are right of course, but I can't help wondering if hospital managers use the fact that most women have birth partners with them these days to justify having fewer MWs - if a partner's in the room, the MW doesn't have to be in there 100% of the time.

It sucks though. Hope the One Mother One Midwife campaign (as one example) can help do something about this rather frightening situation.

[CarolinaMoon]

meant to say, that means that for a first baby at least, there are the two of you in the room and neither of you has ever seen anyone in labour before. Would be nice to be joined by someone who does know.

[bubble99]

Made sense to me hub. And, if MW's were able to advocate properly for labouring women, as is required in their 'Code of Conduct' there would be a second layer of 'bodies' able to create when things weren't happening as they should. Mr Bubble is haunted by the feeling that he let Bo down by going home for a few hours sleep (no facilities for partners at all) after we were admitted in the evening for induction early the following morning. I was, in fact already in the very early stages of labour. No one, including the senior registrar who we (wrongly) assumed knew what she was doing, saw fit to actually assess my cervix (despite me pointing out I'd already had a show)so we were none the wiser.

So. No Mr Bubble, until he was called back after leaving me for a few hours, in what we both initially thought were safe hands. And no MW's with enough experience/knowledge/time/nous/balls to step in and fight Bo's corner. Poor little lad.

[bubble99]

And I'll give you a call on Wednesday. Thanks hub. XX

[uwila]

Hub2dee, very interesting points. I had a baby 8 weeks ago, and in the last trimester of pregnancy I read several stories on this site (not the least of which was of course the tragedy of Bo Bubble). But Bo was not alone. And I used to wonder just how common these tragedies were.

Interestingly,I am in the catchment for St. Peter (the example show with the two mothers) and I flat out refused to go there. I had to put up quite a stink but luckily I'm not the bashful kind. So DS was born at Queen Charlotte.

Also,I had never considered your point about how the partners are not there to get the needed attention. Oh I think you are probably right.

Bubble, tell mr. bubble he's not to blame. Not at all. The trust and the hospital failed Bo. Not his loving parents.

[ruty]

after my emergency c section at 11pm i was taken to observation ward and my dh was told to leave immediately and we had no time together to see our new baby. If he had been around, the mw could not have taken my ds and given him donated breast milk without my consent. Nothing in comparison to bubble's story i know, but very distressing at the time. Wish partners were allowed to stay after birth, because that's when the care seems to plummet even further.

[Elf1981]

Currently pregnant with my first and due in October. This thread frightens the life out of me to be honest, as did the news report.

So far, I've been under the care of one midwife at my local surgery, and had two scans at my chosen hospital. My midwife has been very supportive, even with neurotic questions and stayed behind on Friday for me to rush in when I'd felt no movement from baby all day. My two scans at the hospital were okay too, no waiting either time and staff very helpful.

The thought of giving birth now frightens the life out of me. I chose to have a hospital birth rather than home birth, in the misguided perception that I'll be "safer" at a hospital, as would by child.

The hospital I'm due to deliver at is one of the better ones in my area (had three I could go to). It also has a hotel so after giving birth, I can stay in the hotel with my baby and husband (think he just has to pay about £10 per night). Though I was warned that if the hospital is short staffed with midwives, they move the mothers to the ward and care for them there. I'm so hoping that after the birth I'll be able to stay in the hotel with my husband, after all, it's his baby too.

My midwife did comment that if I felt comfortable staying in the hotel, then I should consider a homebirth because it's pretty much like being at home. I am thinking of talking to her at my next visit as I find myself getting more and more frightened as the birth approaches.

[uwila]

Oh Elf, I think the important thing is to go to a good hopital. I am a firm believer that a good hospital is in fact the safest place to have a baby. These horror stories (I think~) come about because people aren't actually in the good hands they think they are in and therfore it's a false sense of security.

I went into my first birth thinking that because my mother and two sisters had had totally normal straightford natural births that I would to... as it happened I had a failed induction followed by foetal distress and an emergency caesarean at 3:00am. Oh, that was fun... not! But youknow what? Thank God for that hospital and their surgical team.

What hospital are you going to?

[shalaa]

Elf sorry this thread has frightened you, remember alot of women have really good experiences delivering their babies. Even though mine was not straightforward I would go through it all again for my little boy. I'm sure you'll be fine

I'm definately on for a March or demo, anyone up for organising it??

[bubble99]

And Elf. My first two deliveries were wonderful, it was just the last one that was so bad. My advice is to read up on the subject as much as you can and ask and keep asking questions. Good luck with whatever delivery you choose. XX

[uwila]

Hi Bubble. How are you?

[nailpolish]

hi bubble

just passing through

havent had much time to read the whole thread (sorry - i will later promise) and i cant hang around for long just now, but i just wanted to say, these past few weeks, i have decided to ditch my job as an registered HDU nurse. and i feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. to hell with nursing. i hated it. the nhs has gone past the point of no return.

i started nursing 1992 and i loved it for a long time, my god how things have changed. i know others will disagree but its all down to personal experience, isnt it?

[nailpolish]

not "have decided to", i "HAVE ditched" or "i did last month"

[Flossam]

NP Am emailing you. xx

[bubble99]

I'm doin' OK uwila. How's it going with number two?

[Elf1981]

I'm due to give birth at Nottinghams City Hospital. It's supposed to be a good hospital. My mum gave birth at Queens in Nottingham and was unhappy but the majority of family and friends have had their babies at City and been quite happy, so I'm going with the general consensus!

It's just sad that standards are low in some places and what should be the start of a beautiful experience for a woman can turn into such a tradgey.

[uwila]

We are fine. Slept through the night last night and the night before.

[hub2dee]

Hi Elf, I can understand it is scary (my dw just gave birth), but one of the best things you can do is educate yourself, and by being on MN and reading about the different issues, and being prepared to make a fuss when you feel it needs to be made, you are in the best position to secure a great birth outcome.

Despite the scary outcomes and stories that get discussed, statistically, I am sure the very large majority are much more straightforward, fun, and 'ordinary' (medically speaking, IYSWIM).

Wishing you a fab birth experience !

[chicagomum]

hi elf sorry if our stories have frightened you, was not the intention, i know plenty of people who have had fantastic birth experiences in diff hospitals around the country. all i'd say is make sure that you (or rather your birth partner) aren't afraid to speak their mind if they/you aren't happy about something.