pupil rapes teacher...what CAN be done about schools?

[aloha]

Pyschopathic 15 year old rapes teacher. It's not the first attack like this. What is going on and what on earth can be done to prevent it. If this is what is happening in my area (SE London) in secondary education, how can I send my kids to a local school. It sounds terrifying.

[tiddlypom]

I agree with hmb's posts on here. I think the insistence on inclusion without any kind of adequate back-up is absolute madness - like care in the community, only it turned out there wasn't any care, just people being released into the wild.

I know some really fantastic people working in small units which support excluded pupils, and I'd argue that it's that kind of intensive, small group support that kids with big problems - attitudinal, or mental health, or whatever - need. But it seems to me that they're rushed back into mainstream with too much haste, even if they do make it into one of those units.

Also, there have been quite a few threads about bullying in primary schools, and it seems to me that it would be useful to start giving the bullies some support at that stage in their lives, before it gets any worse. What kind of unhappy child is consistently cruel to their classmates? (I speak from bitter experience wrt dd being frequently reduced to tears in the playground .)

[FIMAC1]

I notice that TB mentioned yesterday that Labour were going to try and do something about the behavour/attitude problem that is increasing becoming worse.

There are some great posts on this thread that he ought to read - eg HMB posted:

And It amazes me that they kids will fail to take the chances , more than that they will activly make sure that they don't learn anything. They have only the most shallow understanding of the world around them, and have few interests beyond the getting of material goods. They openly despise their teachers because we don't get paid enough, and in their world that makes us losers....

etc, it needs to be addressed by Government sharpish.....

[stitch]

they learn its ok because they know there are no consequences for their actions.
what sgoing to happen, detention? not in promary school. the behaviour book? that loses it frightening aspects in infants.

[stitch]

a lot of 15 year old boys are men, not boys.
make them go out and earn a living. once they realise that food doesnt come without earned money, they might have a little respect

[Freckle]

I do think that a lot of the problem lies with parents who don't instill the right values in their children in the first place, don't follow through with discipline and don't back the schools when problems ensue.

I had a run-in with a Y6 child a couple of days ago. He physically assaulted DS1 in front of me, so I "had words" with him. As I was speaking, he said "Yeah, right" and just walked off. I was gobsmacked. However, I have heard subsequently that that was actually quite polite for that boy. He'd been sent to the headteacher for calling his form teacher a slag and, when allowed to return to the class, told her to fck off. This is a 10yo. Where* do they learn that that behaviour is acceptable??? Strangely the day after I'd spoken to him, he was "off sick". Hmm.

And then you ask yourself what sort of home background does this child have? He's a known bully, using his fists and feet; he's verbally abusive to staff and other adults. Why?

And, apart from the unrealistic expectations that they will just walk into a high-paid job with no effort or qualifications, they know that, in the end, the state will pay for them to live.

I despair at the prospect of the good values I try to instill in my children being eroded by the constant parade of bad values in front of them. Where is the incentive to take your litter home with you when you see your peers (and often their parents) just chucking theirs down in the street?

[baka]

wow hmb- great posts - and I agree- the biggest problem is that now children grow up expecting to get everything without effort. Something I find my dad (grumpy old man) muttering about frequently.

[TwoIfBySea]

It has everything to do with respect, not only for others but for themselves.

For too long those who have been the bully, criminal, badly behaved have been allowed to get away with whatever due to a lack of consequence over what they have done. I feel this is what has led us to having these kids who are wild and seemingly, terrifyingly unstoppable. They have no reason to stop and think because they don't know how and they don't care.

Again I would say it is the parents. I live (and moan about it) on a housing association cul de sac surrounded by bought new houses, my dst have been taught manners, taught the reactions of their actions if naughty and all for the reason that it gives them self-esteem. So I know it isn't just the kids whose parents don't or rather won't work who are out of control. But when you go to the parents to mention the behaviour they always, to every one, say "Oh I can't do anything about it."

Meaning it is our problem then? Something needs to be done now. No way do I want my dst to go to any school with the horror that is going on in them (although I created a stink to get them into a good preschool nursery so will do the same for their school.)

[JoolsToo]

hmb - I'm your wavelength on this.

[happymerryberries]

Aloha, we all sound like old farts! But we are right even if we are farty.

I think the something for nothing = no respect or value thing is key.

My grandparents valued their community , and the things in it because they had worked their arses off to get them. If you give people things on a plate they take them for granted.

I have seen horribly disruptive kids ask to stay on in the sixth form and be honestly confused when the school says no. They don't realise that post 16 education isn't a 'right'. And they don't want to work in the sixth form, they just want to spend two more years mucking about with their mates. We have banned people from going to the y11 Prom and they were amazed. they had no idea that we would follow through when we had told them, 'this is your last warning'.

We should step in earlier. make the parents take responsibility and not making stupid excuses for inexcusable behaviour. I wouldn't bring back the cane but I would shame them. Make them waer a yellow vest and pick litter on a Saterday. But we ca't do that , it would 'damage them', my arse!

[aloha]

My ds knows that dropping litter in the street is a huge no-no. But I see it every day.
God, I sound old.

[aloha]

I used to see those expectations in work experience girls who came to the magazines I used to work on. They really did consider answering phones/getting coffee etc beneath them. I used to say, "if I can't trust you to get an order for three coffees right, how can I trust you to do something really important?" but theyd still be full of attitude. I even remember offering one workie a chance to see a preview screening of a major movie in a luxurious preview cinema, with free food and drink, and to write a review that would be published with her name on it....and she was a bit tired and thought she'd meet up with a friend instead.... I told her not to bother coming in anymore. She really thought she had what it took.
And these were very 'nice' girls with degrees.

[JoolsToo]

but hmb what can be done about it?

but (here I go) about the jumping on furniture bit - its one of the first lessons of respecting property - don't you agree? The way we teach them to ask for stuff - please and thankyou - take your rubbish home with you - I just could not drop rubbish in the street!

I was taught you work hard for the things you get (as kids we always had jobs to do) and it follows that because you worked hard for it you respect it. Nowadays things come easy and its a throwaway society and now I'm sounding like a sad old git ......

[wheresmyfroggy]

just like children who are rewarded just for turning up to school! it's a sorry state of affairs

[happymerryberries]

Jools, we made a grassed area of the grounds avaiable for the students to sit on etc etc. Up till now the grassed areas have been out of bounds because of litter probelms. If there is litter on the playing fields then there are H & S issues, as seagulls and rats are atracted, with the potential for disease spread on cuts stc. Following consultations with the school council the kids were given limited access last week.

This week it had to be denied due to a horrible litter probelm and abusive grafiti on a wall.

One of the student council (a rather nice child) has sugested that we 'reward' them if they dont litter. WTF???? We give you a reward because you don't do something that you shouldn't do anyway????

they walk out of the lunch hall with a bagette sandwitch and when they have had enough they just throw it on the floor!

[wheresmyfroggy]

Haha jools i know that one

You've been typing for about ten mins and it suddenly dawns on you that it's all a load of tosh

[JoolsToo]

quite simply there is little or no respect for people or property - its a dirty word

I started a lengthy post about the simple things like kids not climbing and bouncing all over the furniture and then thought I sound like a sad old git so thought better of it!

[happymerryberries]

Rather like my very nice sixth form who are quite sure that they are going to pass, while doing no work! They seem to want me to do the learning for them!

[wheresmyfroggy]

Oooooh yes! outside the school gates for everyone to see

[Caligula]

Ooh yes, and the Candice storyline is great, isn't it!

[Caligula]

Talking of soap operas Jools, I wonder how much influence TV has. In Brookside, ordinary characters who started off as girls with no prospects (Lindsey worked in the chip shop) suddenly acquired enough money to own a night club. Ian Beale in Eastenders (a most lacklustre and uninspiring young man), became some sort of sandwich magnate overnight, apparantly with very little experience. They were just the most absurdly economics-free zones, but they don't portray themselves as escapist TV, they market themselves as hard-hitting reality. I wonder how many of these other "realistic" TV genres, where a couple of young people decide to move house and buy themselves a semi-mansion, with no discussion about the dull business of mortgages, incomings, outgoings etc., are promoting this very unrealistic idea of what the future holds?

[JoolsToo]

the cane? ooh no - how about the stocks?

[wheresmyfroggy]

Bring back the cane eh jools

[JoolsToo]

anyone watching Corrie at the mo - Candice is a case in point

[JoolsToo]

quite right froggy - thats why you get so many awful singer on Pop Idol auditions - they all want to make a fast buck (talent or no!)

[wheresmyfroggy]

In answer to caligulka question on why young people have all these expectations...

If you look at all the role models young people have today, footballers, rappers/bands, models etc etc. Most of whom would not have been to university but are rich and famous for other (debatable) talents. Giving young people a warped view of what it requires to become successful