are you worried about immigration?

[victoriapeckham]

This is a tricky one but I ve Just seen that Channel 4 programme Immigration is a Timebomb which has left me feeling uneasy about Islamic immigrants. The Tories are really making it an election issue with their 'Are you thinking what I'm thinking' posters. Now the police are saying 200 Al Queida trained terrorists are wandering about Britain, do you think immigration has gone too far?

[ghosthouse]

I am an atheist and do not wish to be dictated to by any religion's laws. It would be a mighty step backwards for our Western democracy (especially women) if suddenly the freedoms we take for granted were being frequently contested.

What's so wrong with not wanting that?

Yes, cultures do evolve and I am fearful that dumbing down and the rise of yob-culture also threatens our British civilisation.

[hercules]

"British value of tolerance"

[hercules]

But it is too late! Immigrants have been coming into this country for hundreds of years. We should be a pagan country by rights not a Christian one. How far back do you wish to go in order to find the original British culture?

Cultures change, evolve and adapt. Throughout history this has been the way and will continue to be so.

Asking a class of 30 who were anti immigration about their own family backgrounds revealed that actually a lot of them could trace their own family back to having immigrated into this country. I am a white British person but on one side my grandfather is Irish and on the other my Great grandparents were Polish and then grandparents were American.


Good luck in finding a "pure" race who hasnt been affected by immigration and other cultures.

[tatt]

do I think immigration has gone too far - no. Does it worry me - yes. I don't want to see lots of people coming into the country who want to impose their own culture over a british one. Some brits may have been doing that for centuries but my family hasn't and it doesn't make it right. If I wanted to adopt a different culture (whether australian, indian or whatever) I'd go live there - and I wouldn't go unless I was prepared to speak the language. If you choose to live in a different country you respect the culture you have chosen to live in.

I don't know a way to separate IRA terroists or Islamic extremists from other immigrants and I don't want to stop all immigration to exclude them. I'd like to absorb the immigrants so thoroughly into the traditional British value of tolerance that when an extremist does move among them they are exposed by the immigrants.

[donnie]

I agree that people smuggling is awful Pinotmum, but I think you will find that the Gangmasters involved in the cockle picking events of a year ago were all white English men operating in Norfolk and surrounding areas.There are problems with illegal immigration but it is very easy for peopole to misconstrue the scale of the thing, and as I have said on other more inflammatory threads on this topic, the right wing newspapers are instrumental in fanning the flames of racial prejudice here, especially the Mail and the Express. I see last week it was the turn of gypsies and travellers to be savaged by the tabloids...same old, same old.I think a lot of very good points have been made on this thread, especially about the cause/effect scenario, and also the question of how far it is possible for there to be total compatibility between British law and rules or beliefs of a certain sector of society. As for victoriapeckham's original question about the so called ' 200 Al-Qaeda trained terrorists' walking around - well, there are probably far more rapists and drug dealers at large just here in London, and I bet only a tiny proportion of them are Islamic.
I have never liked Norman Tebbit or the Tories, but even I had to agree with the man when he commented yesterday on the irony of Blair's new ' house arrest' laws and their stringency,when he was the man who decided to let so many IRA convicted bombers walk free after the Good Friday agreement!
And finally I also agree with whoever it was on this thread who said we have to look at why the West, or parts of it, is so hated by Islamic peoples. Could it be because we have done nothing for the Palestinians for so long? I won't even get started on that one.....

[Pinotmum]

I have no real worries about immigration but I do have worries that this govt is not addressing illegal immigration. People smuggling seems to be big business and I have just read about a case in my local paper where a family from eastern europe smuggled in girls as young as 17 to to work as prostitutes. Where people are exploited and forced to work for a pittance if anything at all the govt don't seem to be acting even after the chinese cockle pickers tradegy.

[SenoraPostrophe]

Re: islamic immigrants and "terrorist threat", the IRA were training terrorists up until 10 years ago. So presumably there are a number of IRA trained terrorists in the UK too.

Perhaps we should burn the houses of Catholics just to be on the safe side?

Really, like Ghosthouse said - terrorists will find a way if they are so inclined. What we should be doing is working to reduce injustice to lower the terrorist threat as a whole.

[tigermoth]

IN answer to victoriapeckham's original question: no.

Really nice to see such a reasonable discussion about immigrants (islamic or otherwise). I know people are not totally agreeing with each other, but no one is losing their temper (fingers crossed I don't have to eat my words later!)

VictoriaPeckham, as you started this discussion and seem eager to keep it going, was this the reaction you were expecting from us?

[Mud]

and when we have international evenings at school where people bring food from their own culture all I can say is YUM

melting-pot society for me

[Mud]

Just out of interest, the muslims I know (and I will admit I do not know many, but have 'acquaintances' through DS's nursery who I nod, smile and sometimes chat with), anyway they are

family-centred, honourable, trustworthy, friendly, warm, hospitable, hard-working, intelligent and kind

I would swap them for a bunch of chavs in a second

[Mud]

ghosthouse

" Perhaps we could do a deal and take a whole load of immigrant workers and then ship out a whole load of lazy scumbag Brits who do nothing to contribute to Britain as an exchange "


Ha Ha Ha .. well said

[trustme]

Please tell me, can people really not separate terorism from Islam? They are not the samwe thing.....

[trustme]

Why would you feel uneasy about Islamic immigrants in particular, vp? Do you really believe being a Muslim is the same thing as being a terrorist?
One in five people in the world are Muslims....... Perhaps you should hide away as if they make you feel uneasy as that's a lot of people to avoid!

[stitch]

ghosthouse i dont understand what you meant about unlawful infant circumcision. lots of people have it done on the nhs!

[suedonim]

No, not worried. Everyone should read this book. Bloody Foreigners by Robert Winder.

[cloudy]

ps: I am an immigrant, myself, but nobody complains about people like me... because I'm white and a native English speaker. I don't know if I think those are the right reasons to think people like me are ok.

[cloudy]

Is there any serious chance of Islamic law supersedng British laws at the moment? Sounds like scaremongering to even suggest that... what is the Islamic % of the population at the moment? Maybe 4-5%? Anyway, most (>50%, I think) new immigrants (or asylum seekers) are from Eastern Europe, and they're almost entirely not Muslims.

[ghosthouse]

As for worrying about immigrants being terrorist - not at all. If they're going to do something they'll find a way into the country.

Re- Immigrant workers as a whole.... not a problem excpet that I feel our country is already overcrowded. Perhaps we could do a deal and take a whole load of immigrant workers and then ship out a whole load of lazy scumbag Brits who do nothing to contribute to Britain as an exchange

[ghosthouse]

I think, what I am trying to say, in a nutshell, is what should come first when living in Britain. Islamic law or British law?

[ghosthouse]

Sorry - didn't mean to imply ALL the infant circumcisions are carried out unlawfully.

[ghosthouse]

Badmamma - I watched the Channel 4 programme and the only thing about immigration which concerns me is what you highlighted.

Britain is a Western secular democracy and some of the laws of Islam are not conducive to this type of culture. Whilst it may only be subtle and nothing great to fear, I do worry about what we might have to change in the future that we take for granted now.

I have read other articles about this, so this Channel 4 programme was not my first introduction to this.

Not so long ago a Muslim group protested about a billboard advertising underwear being too close to their Mosque. There's been the school uniform case recently. Infant circumcision is carried out unlawfully. What freddoms should British people be expected to give up to make Britain a good place to live for Islamic followers.

Whilst I agree British Expats tend to emmigrate and stick to other Brits, I don't think they expect to adopt another country and flount the current laws and customs.

As a woman and an atheist, I cannot help but being slightly concerned about what freedoms might have to be given up in the very distant future.

Of course, this is not something which keeps me awake at night or currently affects me, it just feels like something that needs to kept and eye on.

[SecondhandRose]

No I know immigrants weren't involved, don't worry I'm not mad. Like I said my problem is the 'knock on effect' on services.

[piffle]

the 200 al q terrorist walking around are not specified to be immigrants are they?
Islam is a huge religion, (potentially the worlds largest in a decade it has been reported) in varying degrees of application, some more orthodix then others, same as Judaism and Christianity. I think learning to live and work alongside Islam is as much a necessity as excluding Jonny Foreigner on the count of religious allegiance!
My mother and my husbands parents are Irish and were openly hated upon arriving here.
Tolerance is absolutely the key and why does no one ever ask why the heck are we a terrorist target, why is the US so hated amongst Islamic fundamentalists.
Look at adjusting foreign policy, sticking our military might and diplomatic force in the RIGHT bloody countries, instead of poaching economic targets, which will pay back the cost of the rescue mission.
Immigration is fine, by all means restrict immigrants to a points system as NZ and Australia do, this will NOT affect humanatarian refugees, which is what fuels the Tory fire the most.
How can you possibly legislate against persecuted races of people seeking refuge.
This is not just a UK issue it is a worldwide one. The UK has helped create these victims of war and conflict so it is cause and effect really.
Christ I will go on and on, this whole issue and they way it is debated in the media makes my blood boil
I know not all immigrants are desirable people, plenty of our own citizens are damned that way too!!! Pity we still can't send all to Australia still huh!

[Flossam]

Gwenwick my DP is a policeman.

But it does seem like compared to other places it is relatively easy to access this country. Which them makes me wonder why people have to come here illegally at all?