Margaret Thatcher to be given state funeral.

[S1ur]

Is this true? because the Daily Mail reported it so obviously I need something more reliable than that

Last year Guardian reported 'there were no plans' for a state funeral.

Anyone heard this from anywhere other than the DM?

[spokette]

smallwhitecat

"the uncomfortable truth, spokette, is that governments and PMs of all stripes stick up for repulsive regimes for various realpolitik-type reasons. look at the way we suck up to the fucking Saudis for a start - they treat women just as badly as the Apartheid regime treated black South Africans. Or look how China is getting away with appalling human rights abuses becasue we need their cheap manufactured goods. I don't like it but it's a fact of political life and to criticise Mrs T for it while overlooking the fact that every British Government there has been and is still to come has done/will do it is silly."

The uncomfortable truth that you are missing is that Thatcher supported SA regime because not to do so would have been to the detriment of her husband's business interest. Nothing to do with political expediency for the British people - it was purely self-serving.

She visited Pinochet in a personal capacity when he visited the UK for medical treatment. She considered this murdering butcher a personal friend!!

The woman has no integrity imo and for that reason she is unworthy of a state funeral.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Elasticwoman]

She was only a grocer's daughter but she taught Sir Geoffrey Howe.

Any other suggestions for Maggie's epitaph?

[UnquietDad]

I expect her to be buried at sea to have the last laugh over the grave-dancers...

[missyhissey]

At the end of the day we need to remember that our opinions are just that - opinions.
All you Maggie bashers will find that there are countless people from all walks of life throughout the country who disagree with you. And their opinions are just as valid as yours.

I got chatting with a bloke a few months ago, working class made good I suppose you could call him, mid thirties. We touched briefly on politics and was adamant in his opinion that Thatcher was the best PM we've ever had.

I don't know enough about eighties politics to counter some of the more rational arguments on here but I do know that glorying in the prospect of another woman's death is revolting by anyones standards. I don't think you realise how much it demeans you and any point of view you are trying to put across to do this.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Piffle]

tb?
what on earth makes you think I rate him at all?

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[paolosgirl]

Do you think that TB would have kept the mines open Piffle?

[Piffle]

as my ex mining family suffered sobadly under that witch, I personally will never tire of maggie bashing
I'd dance on her grave and as am only 15 miles from her hometown perhaps that opportunity will arise.

[colacubes]

Oh Jesus, still Maggie bashing are we!

[donnie]

has she pegged it yet? am dusting off my bunting in preparation.

btw agree with spokette ENTIRELY!

[Piffle]

is that you jools?
The sole Tory.
Lol

[JT]

she was simply the best, no other reason needed

[spokette]

Whoever said that Thatcher fought for freedom of speech should remember the following:

She supported the apartheid regime because of her husband's business interest in SA. The fact that the majority of SA had no voice failed to thaw her cold heart.

She stood up for Augusto Pinochet, the evil dictator in Chile because she believes that he stood firm against the rise of Fascism. The fact that he was a brutal dictator who suppressed the views of anyone who did not agree with him by using torture and murder did not prevent her from paying him a visit when he came to the UK for medical treatment.

Stopping the broadcast of the IRA members and its supporters so their words had to be spoken by journalist. How was that upholding free speech, especially when the National Front and BNP were still allowed to spew their bile uncensored? All the government did was to empower the IRA and project itself as being led by a suppressive dictator - Thatcher!

Clause 28 - pity the English teacher in Thatcher's Britain who dared to teach the subtext of Tennessee Williams' The Glass Menagerie.

Freedom of speech? Don't make me laugh!

[UnquietDad]

Pruners - not saying everyone is nasty jeering lightweights, but whenever the (somewhat premature) subject of MT's funeral comes up, the sneery Rik/Ben Elton-style comments do tend to dominate.

I don't think any reason is needed other than the fact that no PM since Churchill has had one. Why get into the vitriol at all? It's like some people haven't got over the 1980s.

(I mentioned my visit to the Commons because edam asked me rather chippily if I had ever been there.)

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[S1ur]

Ok the mistakenly was because I thought you classed yourself as left-wing, then I read the comments like 'you' people and such and I didn't get a sense of 'we' on the left. Not a problem, I was merely apologising for making assumptions about your politics that may (?) have been wrong.

I think a lot of the comments on here are funny in the author's own voices. Indeed I beleive that was there intention as I say I don't think they were aiming for debating medals.

An argument based only on insults is a poor one, but it does not reduce you to your enemy. In fact I think the people on here would be hard pushed to reduce themselves to Thatcher's level with the resources they have at hand.

Most people judged that this thread wasn't asking for a debate about the rights and wrongs of a state funeral (though I did try at one point) nevertheless some did take up that around the middle, others were debating whether funerals should be discussed prior to death.

FWIW there are more reasons than the fact she was just a pm to not have a state funeral. Or because she was the first female pm.

If you'd like that debate then fine, you just didn't need to call any who were enjoying this thread for the Adrian Mole poem childish.

[UnquietDad]

What's with the "mistakenly" assuming I was left-wing? Simply because I was making the case for arguing sensibly that MT should not have a state funeral rather than calling her an evil old witch?...

And I do think most of the vituperative stuff written on here sounds like Rik out of the Young Ones. Re-read it in his voice. It's quite funny.

My point is that a lot of people reduce themselves to the level of the "enemy" they despise and don't exactly further their cause with the ad feminam insults.

[S1ur]

I have reasd your posts properly thankyouverymuch (not at all patronising to suggest otherwise, oh no.)
I think comparing the only voices to oppose the state funeral to Rik out of the young ones or saying things like 'ooh look I didn't say fascist once' qualifies as a smidge patronising.

and
a) I was already aware that you were not a tory, I actually (mistakenly I apologise) thought you were left-wing.
and b) Yes you gave a reason, as have others. Some with abuse, some without.

This is a mumsnet thread not a article in the paper. Or a debate in a meeting. I stand by what I said. Surely you can see that some threads are allowed to be more chatting down the pub than the 'adult' way to go about things?

Obviously there are better ways to criticise Margaret Thatcher than to make up a song called we hate maggie. There are many articles about her impact in particular as opposed to 'just' the tory party. And there are excellent debates about her continuing legacy into Blairs recent administration - but I doubt I need to tell anyone this. So yes when she dies there will be opportunity to assess her damage and her contribution to the culture and politics of today and there will be people who were hurt by her who will use emotive language to express themselves. But you know what, the songs are okay too.

[UnquietDad]

Maybe she wanted to be the only one in the Cabinet!