What might happen to the NHS if the Tories win the GE?

[AngryofTunbridgeWells]

I have Type 1 Diabetes and it costs over £850 a month to keep me alive (I had to look it up and then was shocked!) While I have no health issues related to it, and have very good control, I also am aware that it is possible to have issues at some point regardless as it is something I have had for over 37 years.

I am reading a lot about how the NHS is crumbling and also how less and less money is being put into it. It may be the type of things I read and the people I know (who have similar 'lefty' views to myself) but I am also hearing that the Tories are likely to be wanting to privatise more and more of it.

Can someone please explain in simple terms if this means people like me, with pre existing medical conditions, would either have scarily high insurance premiums if it came to that, or not be able to get cover for anything connected to Type 1 Diabetes, and similar conditions, at all...?
Or, what might realistically happen with what is currently the NHS? Would it be like in the US, for example? (Of which I am not entirely sure how it works so off for a quick Google while I wait for replies!)

Thanks in advance!

[caroldecker]

Xeno see graph - apologies, 3 small decreases in 78, 97 and 2011, so 2 thirds of falls in real terms spending under Labour.

[Xenophile]

4. NHS spending has increased in real terms and in terms of % of GDP under all governments, regardless of whom

Given that that is absolutely untrue, I'll judge the rest of your comment based upon it.

[cdtaylornats]

In Scotland we have a left wing government that refuses to tell us how much work in the NHS is farmed out because they claim they don't know. Don't believe socialists wont sell out the NHS because they're doing it right now.

NHS Tayside being run by Ernst & Young
www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20170522/282213715761558

[BarchesterFlowers]

Very reassuring, not. The NHS is being eroded by stealth to allow fake targets to be met.

The waiting times for things like knee and hip replacements has reduced because people aren't put in the waiting list queue until the fake targets can be met.

I used to see a dermatologist once a year for an all over body check after having a few things removed over the years. Three years ago those reviews were stopped because the NHS couldn't support that sort of check anymore. I pay to see someone, good job I do as I have had things removed that wouldn't have been spotted at this stage otherwise. Not income generation either as once identified they have been removed on th NHS.

[cdtaylornats]

The most likely thing is there will still be enough money to run it.

[caroldecker]

1. Over 50% of NHS spending always has gone to private companies, even when it was set up
   
2. Labour are the only part to introduce charging after the set-up of the NHS (opticians, dentists and prescriptions)
   
3. Since 1945, Labour has been in power for 29 years, Conservatives for 43 years, so look after the NHS
   
4. NHS spending has increased in real terms and in terms of % of GDP under all governments, regardless of whom

[BarchesterFlowers]

She won't be relying on the NHS the Tories are decimating though will she, unlike the rest of us.

[cdtaylornats]

I would suggest that as Theresa May also has type 1 diabetes you might well be safe.

[Bluebeedee]

The things that shocked me from the video is that parts of the NHS have already been sold to private companies, and how many people are using the NHS (longer life expectancy being one of the main reasons) vs how much money is invested in the service.
It made me feel quite emotional at how amazing the NHS is - after having my first baby last year and my mum having a mastectomy and currently going through chemo

[Bluebeedee]

This is a really interesting video about the potential privatisation of the NHS by junior doctors so not politically biased: m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=wSmPIBJWXGM

[gamerwidow]

The NHS will not disappear under another Tory government but I believe the following are risks due to underfunding and aggressive immigration policies:

• rising A&E and elective surgery waits
• skills gap due to withdrawal of nursing bursary meaning less nurses in training
• increased reliance on agency staffing (at huge cost) because of lack of new trainees and difficultly in recruiting staff from EU due to Brexit
• increased privacy by stealth using 3rd party health suppliers leading to confusion for patients. It's often heralded that patients want choice but ime the don't want lots of confusing options they just want to be treated quickly.
• lack of investment in infrastructure leading to poor care because of outdated facilities, equipment. IT etc.

[Postagestamppat]

the way the NHS will be "privatised" is by
A. selling off lots of services to private companies (already happening)
B. creating a two tier system whereby there is a basic level of government funded care but specialised higher standard care for those with insurance. Already started to happen.

This is it absolutely. Look at dental care. NHS dentists are available, but vary wildly in quality and offer only basic care. Most people go private for consistent higher quality care. And just look at how much the treatment costs! Also, I have noticed from friends and family that health insurance is becoming more common in salary packages for the better paid. (Although this may be a sign of me getting older.)

I doubt that the conservatives would ever go the full american model because they want to get re-elected at some stage, but they will have a skeleton NHS for the poorest and expect the rest to have insurance or pay if they want the luxury of proper health care.

[alreadytaken]

Deficit is higher than it was under the last Labour government, except for the bank bailout.

The Tories ran down the NHS. Labour built it back up again, the Tories are now getting the opportunity to run it down further. Anyone with any sense is now looking at private insurance policies or self-funding because what is left of the NHS after under 5 years of reduced funding is going to be a very poor imitation of what it was.

[Tanith]

"Excellent post cuts through all the fuckwittery. I wish political parties and politicians would campaign on what they are actually going to do not base their campaigns on name calling and childish playground tactics."

How rude! You could do with taking your own advice!

[AngryofTunbridgeWells]

Oooh, I had forgotten about this thread. I was having a browse at In the News and saw it come up. I have to go and get my DS now but will read and properly comment when I get back.

[OddBoots]

Hasn't a lot of the NHS been given to Virgin already?

[nursy1]

Infinite - but in every Tory Gov it has deteriorated over the last 30 years. We got money from Blair gov. Our pay went up and it made a real difference with equipment on the wards.

[InfiniteSheldon]

purits Sat 29-Apr-17 21:27:56
I was thinking about this this morning. Every election since I don't know when, Labour have always trotted out "the NHS is safe with us" which is implying that it won't be safe with the Tories. And yet, despite several Tory Governments in the 70 years since the invention of the NHS, it is still there. How can this be?hmm
It's dog-whistle politics to pretend that only Labour can run the Health Service. It's about time that we called them on it.

Excellent post cuts through all the fuckwittery. I wish political parties and politicians would campaign on what they are actually going to do not base their campaigns on name calling and childish playground tactics.

[BarchesterFlowers]

PFI was born under the conservatives (Major) and most, including the NAO thought it was a reasonable financial option until the global financial crisis.

[nursy1]

The NHS is being privatised, subtly, bit by bit.
Small example - the smoking cessation clinics that I used to run have been outsourced to a private Company. Instead of attending them in the village where they live, patients travel to nearest town. Of course this is a faff so there is a much higher drop out rate - the private company gets paid whether they attend or not.
The NHS trust I used to work at outsourced the reading of its MRI scans, the quality of the reports was abysmal, any questions took much longer to answer so often they had to be read again by in house radiographers. This is no longer operating thank goodness but the pressure for this kind of approach is unrelenting.
I do not understand why. Our NHS is very cost effective. It needs funding properly and we do not spend enough on it ( as a % of GDP) by a long way compared to other countries.
I am a long time NHS employee and I can tell you that every time a Conservative Gov gets in we are started of money. They are just ideal logically opposed to the whole idea of a national health service and this blinkers them to any common sense
With Brexit I am very worried that we will be so keen to do trade deals with the USA that we will allow the likes of United Healthcare, Kaiser ( who have been circling the NHS for years) straight in - they tried to get access via TTIPP a couple of years ago but we're rebuffed by the rest of the EU ( the UK were all for letting them)
This US system provides the most expensive healthcare for the worst outcomes in the developed world.

[prh47bridge]

Judge us on reducing the deficit they said - it's gone up

No it has not. The deficit is substantially down. The debt is up but it will continue to rise as long as there is a deficit.

[peppatax]

peppatax we cannot staff the NHS without immigrants. The abolition of nursing bursaries makes that worse

I'm not saying that - I'm saying the immigration cap is not wrong but nowhere have I seen that TM will cap skilled workers we actually need such as those to staff the NHS. It's a big leap to say immigration rules will directly harm the NHS when the government aren't that stupid to realise that immigrants staff the NHS!

Not sure why junior doctors think they should have a golden ticket to earning the kind of money that consultants are on without years of hard work. Those that make the grade are well rewarded. No different to any other industry where you start at the bottom rung of the ladder, seems junior doctors expect their bottom rung to be nice and high when there is a need for a change in contracts to ensure economic viability. Paying doctors more will just mean less money to staff properly for other vital areas. Books have to be balanced somehow - not surprised it's the doctors that think they're above changes in contracts (I say this as friends are AHP who have seen changes to contract in terms of 7 day working and pension without throwing toys out the pram).

[alreadytaken]

peppatax we cannot staff the NHS without immigrants. The abolition of nursing bursaries makes that worse. Want to read what the NHS is saying? www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/new-immigration-charge-could-cost-nhs-millions-of-pounds/

Of course Teresa has never met her immigrant target and probably wont in future either because a lot of current immigration is skilled and some of the unskilled will have to continue unless crops are left to rot in the fields. www.ft.com/content/a95ecb20-bd66-11e6-8b45-b8b81dd5d080

This country now wants to work its doctors to death while paying junior doctors less than they can earn in retail why should doctors sacrifice themselves for people who dont give a damn - or a vote - to fight for the NHS. They can go and work in a country that still values health care staff. You want to be all "me, me, me".

[alreadytaken]

Tories are bad for the economy, they are just good at lying about it. Judge us on reducing the deficit they said - it's gone up and would have gone down under Labour when the banks were sold back off.

There is plenty of information around on why insurance based systems are bad for your health - I'll give you one comment from an American
letter from America...

"I wish one thing for the British people in this upcoming election, I don't care whether you consider yourself conservative, labour, yellow, blue, rich, poor, young, old, for or against the variety of political slogans thrown around. I wish every person eligible to vote, to vote for the #NHS. Whatever that takes, whatever other policies you have to grey line on or even disagree with. Vote for the #NHS.
I tell you from experience that the negotiations that have already happened with United Health and other private bodies are against your best interests. Once the middle men of a fractured health, insurance driven system get in, you will never get them out. Few people are aware in England of how much it hurts to hear your child in pain and instead of whipping them up in your arms and taking them to the nearest hospital, you are on the phone asking a stranger if your policy will cover it. Being admitted to hospital and an over night stay with a single scan costing just over $4,000... and the quote for the treatment you need being 16,000 - that's not including anesthesiologist fees or any complications arising. Who do you know right now has an extra $400 per person a month for insurance fees (that's low, many pay much more) who then dictate what you can and can't treat and the treatment for it. Who benefit if you die rather than fight, who call new treatments, for cancer especially, 'experimental' and refuse to pay.

I have a friend who would not be here right now if it wasn't for a go fund me page, because his insurance didn't deem him fit for the heart surgery he needed, despite the surgeon saying he was. Please , everyone, fight for your #NHS, because once it's gone, no one will be fighting for you and you will no longer have a voice. Vote for the #NHS, whatever it takes, fight for it."

and a doctors comparison www.stylist.co.uk/life/nhs-open-letter-politics-uk-british-a-and-e-doctor-health

[wickerlampshade]

There isn't much money because it's all going on the privitisation PFI projects that New Labour signed us up to. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown got all the kudos for building hospitals but kept quiet about the fact that we will be paying over the odds for them for the next 50 years.

Yup. arguably Tony Blair did as much damage to the NHS as the conservatives have done. I laughed at the Labour canvasser on the doorstep who said they were the party of the NHS. not any more.