Call for government action over increased holiday prices during school holidays

[CatherineHMumsnet]

Following the story today on how a father's Facebook rant about how travel companies increase holiday prices during the school holidays encouraged 143,000 people to sign a petition calling for government action, we were wondering what Mumsnetters' opinions were on the subject.

Are you sick of being forced to pay dramatically higher prices to take a holiday when schools are out? Or do you see it, as ABTA do, as a straightforward issue of supply and demand?

[Tweasels]

Why anyone thinks the Government would make luxuries like holidays cheaper when they are happy to see us ripped off over necessities such as gas and electric is beyond me.

It's supply and demand. No one has a right to have cheap holidays.

There are so many reasons to petition this Government, this is not one of them.

[MoreBeta]

I do wish people would stop going on about this issue.

There are only a finite amount of holidays available. If the price of holidays and flights was reduced by some sort of law then demand would increase beyond what was available and then there would have to be some sort of rationing system. Price is currently the way we balance supply and demand in a market economy. We have welfare for basic goods and services for those that cannot afford the essentials of life - that though does not include a right to a two week foreign package holiday

Honestly, if you intervene in markets to limit prices you end up with shortages and then you get a black market. Not sure I want a black market in buckshee hotel bookings and dodgy airline tickets.

[mummymeister]

Thanks manchesterhistorygirl. lots of people seem not to appreciate that we don't all live 9 - 5 working week with weekends off lives. as for saying its all about little jocasta and her month off. really? its not its about mummymeister and a wet week in December in Wales but at least being with my kids and dh rather than having to split ourselves to take them away. really this is issue of holidays in term time is just starting to enter peoples vision. there is a misconception that you pay up the extra and go. just wait until ms. averages family get taken to court. it will happen. and who knows? you situation now might be that you can go away in school hols but jobs and lives change. you can be against something even if it doesn't affect you personally. this is about power. the power of one person the head teacher to make a decision to code your absence as they think fit. in some places you will be authorised and in others not for the same thing and this is the problem. too much discretion and a post code lottery. why don't the ConDems see that this is going to end badly.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

The ConDems don't care it if ends badly for Mr or Ms Average in any other respect, so I can't see how this will be any different.

[KayHarker1]

And of course, while holidays are nice, they aren't a basic human right or anything. We don't have holidays and we get by...

[lljkk]

It's supply & demand. I don't care about holiday companies. We never use them.

I DO OBJECT to the blanket ban on hols in term time except for exceptionals. If I were a HT I would be outraged over the removal of my discretion about it. As a foreign-born parent who wants to see family at a time that suits them, I am merely furious at the extra stress the latest policy changes have caused me.

[MummyPigsFatTummy]

If the prices had to be reduced in peak times to satisfy this, a lot of holiday providers would go out of business - the big profits they make in the peak periods cover them for the slower periods - that includes small UK B&Bs/hotels etc. just as much as foreign holiday operators. So the holidays might be cheaper but there would be far fewer places to actually go.

But I do agree there should be discretion brought back for term time holidays in the last week of term, say, at least in Primary School or outside of exam years. They really do do nothing then.

When I was at school in the Neolithic era, my (independent) school head (a Nun, which may or may not have been relevant) refused my Mum permission to let me take the last week off to go on a Venture Scout holiday in Lower Sixth. My Mum decided I would be far better off hang gliding, hiking, potholing and micro-light flying(!) (not sure about that last one on reflection) with the Scouts than hanging around in a classroom doing nothing useful for a week (which is what end of term was). So she took me out anyway and I had a ball (and didn't die amazingly).

I think it is sad that sort of discretion has been taken away from parents and (more reasonable) Headteachers because of a few rotten apples.

[Indith]

I do agree that it should not be s criminal offence to take your child out of school. But I do not agree that the government should have the power to price fix holidays. separate issues.

[Panzee]

Yay, let's make the price the same all year round. But of course it wouldn't be the lower one. So everyone loses out.

I didn't have many holidays as a child because my parents' jobs meant they were busier in the summer. Can't say it ever bothered me.

[CalamitouslyWrong]

I have no idea why I'm being accused of wanting to criminalise parents who take their children out of school. All I've said on that is that it's a completely different issue to the price of peak time holidays. Eliding the two issues doesn't actually help anyone.

A petition based on the fact that some people don't like the price charged for a holiday in the time that's available to them is just silly. I'm going to start a petition complaining that the shops I want to buy clothes in don't have branches near me and charge more than I want to pay. Clearly the government need to do something to ensure that I can afford to buy the clothes I want.

However, I absolutely don't buy the 'children need holidays' argument in any way. They don't need holidays any more than they need an xbox, for example. I could make all sorts of arguments about the benefit they might derive from an xbox, but it wouldn't change the fact that they don't actually need one. It is nice to have holidays and people really value them but it isn't some kind of basic necessity. It's a want not a need

[Manchesterhistorygirl]

Ok then they don't need holidays, but what if their family happen to live several thousand miles away and the only convenient time to visit is in term time? Do they still not get to go?

[JassyRadlett]

The number of travel companies that have gone bust or had profit warnings in recent years suggests they are not sitting on chairs made of huge piles of money.

I suspect their actual break-even point lies somewhere between the peak-season prices and the low-season prices. The high season subsidises the part of the year where they can't make a profit and allows them to stay in business, keep paying their staff, etc.

Price controls don't really feel like they'd lead to a functional industry, particularly when many of the costs for foreign holidays are off shore.

[Rosa]

calamity My children need holidays .. Without them we would never see our UK family . Luckily here in Italy nobody frowns when i remove the children from school 2 days early to get the cheaper flights . Without this our last trip would have cost me £700 more .
Dd has collected tourist info on our Uk destination and they have had class dicsussions about the difference between the 2 countries as well as other tasks.

[CalamitouslyWrong]

I haven't commented on the government policy about what constitutes reasonable time off during term time at all.

What I've said is that whinging about the price of a holiday and saying the government should intervene so that you can pay less is ridiculous (because that's what people want action on).

Whether people want to take their kids somewhere during term time (for whatever reason) is something they can worry about. I quite frankly don't care what other people do.

I will take issue if they start stamping their feet and going on about how they need to go on holiday, when their position is actually that they think that they should be able to go on holiday because they want to. There is a political case to be made for people being able to make such choices. It is actually undermined by pretending that going on holiday is some kind of basic human need or right.

[CalamitouslyWrong]

Rosa: you're actually arguing that your children need to be able to have contact with their family, who don't live in the same country as them. That's not quite the same as insisting that you need to get on a plane to go somewhere to spend time with people who live in the same house as you.

But still the issue you are raising is one of cost. No one is preventing you from visiting your family. It's that you want to save £700.

As I said, the issue of whether or not you should be allowed to make the decision to go two days before the end of term or not is not the same as the issue of whether it should cost more to go in the school holidays. The petition is about the price, bit about whether parents should be able to make decisions about whether their children can have time off school.

[CalamitouslyWrong]

Also, apparently going to stay with family is a dreadful thing to do to children and resolutely not a holiday. Or so I've been told below. So you seem to be inflicting unspeakable damage on your children, Rosa. I do too, since the last time we went anywhere it was to stay with the PILs. I must have imagined everyone enjoying it.

[AddToBasket]

Making it a criminal offence to take your child on holiday makes a total balls out of education. The LEA might think the three days in Rome/Centre Parcs are being badly spent but that's just a bit stupid of them.

Schools should be working in partnership with parents and that cuts both ways.

[vestandknickers]

What a daft petition. What has it got to do with the Government? It is market forces. Travel companies charge what people are prepared to pay and have every right to do so. It is not as if everyone has to have a holiday. It is a luxury.

[ItsATIARA]

The government may need to intervene in pricing where truly essential products are unaffordable, or where there is a quasi-cartel situation, eg with domestic energy prices.

But there must be literally millions of holiday providers around the world. I honestly don't think they're all conspiring to make me overpay for holidays.

And the PP who felt that staying with relatives was purgatorial needs better relatives.

[MoreBeta]

If it was found that airlines and tour operators were colluding to agree to fix the price of holidays in certain periods of the year that would be illegal but there absolutely no evidence or allegation of that and it would require state regulatory intervention.

Indeed competition in the holiday market is cut throat and profit margins are razor thin. The internet has seen to that and resulted in the closure of many bricks and mortar travel agents.

[amimagic]

Calamitous most of the things that make our short lives in any way worth living are wants not needs.

The two issues are being elided as one is directly affected by the other, and the primary driver for such mass frustration at current price differentials is the government's changed stance on term-time holidays.

If you don't see the need for access to affordable holidays then fine. Why are you bothered either way? Those who don't want to take their kids out of school don't have to, and are not being adversely affected by those who do. Those who do massively value holidays though, are having their choices taken away from them.

I agree that the petition to reduce prices is futile and naive - the only thing that is changeable is the government's rule on term-time holidays.

[BackforGood]

Surely we did all this last week (or was it the week before).
The consensus of the thread was that it was ridiculous and at best naive.

Holidays are a luxury. Great if you can afford them, but I think the Gvmnt has higher priorities than intervening with the free market because some people are whining that they can't afford them.

My ds wants to be able to drive, but he can't afford the insurance. "It's not fair" that it's more expensive if you happen to be a 17yr old lad so he can't afford it. Shall I start a petition so ask all the rest of the taxpayers to subsidise that for him. After all, everyone has a basic right to be able to drive don't they ?

[Drquin]

I think campaigners need to be very clear of what they're campaigning for. It seems to me that there's two distinct issues.

One is whether it's "fair" that there's a higher price for a service at some times, compared to other times. Yes, of course it's fair, that's how market economies work. It's cheaper to stay a Saturday night on some flights, because non-Saturdays are aimed at the business traveller thus are priced higher. It's cheaper to travel on the train or bus after 9.30 because that's when the majority of folk don't travel. Its cheaper to buy a restaurant dinner at 2pm on a Tuesday than 8pm on a Saturday. It's cheaper to buy an off-peak (I.e. Less busy times) gym or cinema ticket. Basically, it's cheaper to travel anywhere (or do anything) when no-one else wants to

Upshot is if you want there to be "cheaper" prices sometime, then it stands to reason there'll be a "more expensive" price at other times. Literally, law of of averages.

Second, separate issue is whether it is acceptable that one can choose when and when not to send their child to school, and at what point there may be a financial (or other) penalty for non-attendance of a certain level.

[mummymeister]

yes there are two distinct issues drquin but they have become related due to the change in the law by this govt. As someone up thread said a holiday is not a need it is a want. but then so are a huge number of other things like birthday presents, going to the cinema, having a TV. having a sky tv, numerous computers, x boxes etc is important to some people but not to me. holidays, time with my family away from self employment is important to me because we work when the kids are off and being self employed means working at really odd times and is disruptive. the one issue, the cost of holidays, has become more important because those of us with no choice or with family abroad used to have good school relationships and be able to take hols when needed. now we cant. MN wont tackle this with a petition despite it appearing daily on a number of different topics.

[tethersend]

Of course the government will get involved.

This issue will be one of their justifications for slashing school holidays and allowing heads to set their own term times.

Be careful what you wish for.