Nelson Mandela has died

[PacificDogwood]

RIP

He was the first proper hero of mine

[PacifistDingDong]

Heavens above, wordsmith, the link to that flashmob had me sobbing at my desk at work - and I am not SA.

Lovely, just lovely, thank you for linking and sharing .

[ExcuseTypos]

Thank you Wordsmith.

I'm always stuck by Mandela's smile. Such a big smile.

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

Bless you wordsmith for what may be a lovely end to a great thread

[wordsmithsforever]

The lyrics Asimbonang' uMandela thina in English mean "We have not seen Mandela".

The song was written in 1986 during the state of emergency when NM was in prison of course. The lyrics then go on to list activists who died in detention - Steve Biko, Neil Agget, etc. All of whom were not seen anymore at that terrible time - and now of course the song has special poignancy because we will no longer see Madiba.

God, I'm finished - a snivelling wreck. I need to stop posting now and go and blow my nose very hard.

Full lyrics here for anyone who likes poetry - see songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858701028/

[wordsmithsforever]

Same song with Madiba singing along - amazing - see

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

That's wonderful wordsmith - a perfect tribute I'm sure he'd have loved

[wordsmithsforever]

Have a look at this tribute by the Soweto Gospel Choir - flash mob style. Ex-South Africans living abroad: get the tissues ready - you have been warned!

www.thesouthafrican.com/featured/incredible-flashmob-tribute-to-madiba-in-woolworths.htm

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

I don't think it was a biggie myself - but there's a whole thread about it for those who are interested

[Mignonette]

Absolutely disgraceful and disrespectful behaviour by Cameron and Obama, seen taking selfies of themselves during a memorial service.

Here.

Ignorant and I don't care how long the service was or how bored they were.

[wordsmithsforever]

A group of friends of mine are off to the stadium today for the memorial service. The tickets are gone (they were free but went quickly) so we're not going unfortunately. The local council has opened up a condolence book here in my area so we're going to sign that instead. I can tell I'm going to have to draw on my British ancestry for a stiff upper lip!

Miserable cynic that I am, I'm always the first one to mutter when someone says they're "devastated" about the death of some famous person they've never met. I always think - well yes it's devastating for their children or family and close friends but not for you, you numpty!

But now I find myself with this huge lump in my throat every time I switch on the TV! I'm having to eat my words! Part of it is just the amazing atmosphere here in SA at the moment. In the shops they've got big screens up of all the proceedings and it's just lovely to see everyone, all colours of the rainbow, watching together and chatting. Lots of people just very moved by it all.

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

Ah, arriving for the beginning of the lying in state today, before the funeral on Friday I believe - Memorial Service was yesterday in Johannesburg? (missed the News last night)

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

Have been watching the family arriving for the memorial service this morning. Touching to see his 18 grandchildren and 12 great-grandchildren arriving with their families, and other friends and wider family.

[JugglingUnwiselyWithBaubles]

I'm sure Madiba will be very pleased for her

[pmTea]

an impossibly hard act to follow...

[ajandjjmum]

Reported - glad my insomnia is good for something!

[wordsmithsforever]

it would be disingenuous to expect some kind of pacifist, equal-opportunity Shangri-La in any country - so true. I think to understand South Africa and in fact the Mandela legacy itself you have to be able to tolerate complexity. It's not all black and white lots of shades of grey.

[wordsmithsforever]

Me too Salbertina - alarm on, locked up to the nth but so grateful - sad too but also glad he is no longer suffering as he was.

[Salbertina]

Am sitting here with my dog, my armed response etc and agree, yes, Mandela did unbelievably more good than harm. I think 99% of the SA population would agree. Feeling v sad but also grateful that he was here.

[ParcelFancy]

Ugh, and I can't even read thread properly - it was me who used enclaves, specifically not to discuss compounds.

I'm obviously gibbering today and not fit to discuss anything.

[PacificDogwood]

There was not realy 'purpose' of the thread other than to express my rather half-baked and only semi-understood emotions at the announcement of NM's death, so debate away.

A lot of totalitarian states have been very 'peaceful' and well organised - freedom is much more risky and scary.

Look at violence in the US, Land of the Free and all that jazz , gun ownership, homicide rates, racial violence etc etc. It's of course not the same, but I think it would be disingenuous to expect some kind of pacifist, equal-opportunity Shangri-La in any country.
Personally, I'd happily visit the US (I have) and SA (I wish), but would not be happy living in either. But the same goes for many other countries on this planet.

On balance, I think that NM has done far, FAR more good than bad and is probably unequalled in prominence amongst public figures worldwide so I think dwelling a bit on his death is right.

[ParcelFancy]

Sorry, I think this has diverted from the purpose of the thread.

Apologies, I won't say any more.

[ParcelFancy]

I also don't know anyone who usually carried a gun or even owned one. But that doesn't make your experience untrue.

[ParcelFancy]

I didn't say white people were living in compounds, but enclaves (the word used by other poster), which of course they were. Although IIRC one of the places I was staying was known as a cluster home in the 1980s.

That's just my experience. It doesn't mean it was yours. Big country, after all.

But it does mean that a portrayal of apartheid South Africa as all unlocked doors and cycling schoolgirls, and the end of apartheid as marking a dramatic change in this, would be false. The haves in some areas were ramping security up well before apartheid ended in 1994. And if you include bars on windows - a feature you don't see much in London - that process started a looong time before the end of apartheid.

In fact think I must have missed your point, AfricanExport, because it sounds faintly like, "Oh the golden years of apartheid, how awful the end of apartheid has made things."

But I'm sure that isn't actually what you're saying, and apologies that I'm obviously not quite understanding you.