3 woman kept hostage for 30 years

[ivykaty44]

one being the whole of her life as she is 30 - how did this person not ever go to school? This is shocking

[PigletJohn]

I was wondering if it was any worse for a person to be subjugated by a Maoist, or by a religious organisation running a laundry.

I decided it wasn't.

[mewmeow]

Flatpack I disagree with you but don't want to continue the debate on this thread, i think we've hijacked it enough. If you wish to continue this discussion ( probably fruitlessly because I probably won't agree with you unless you throw something my way I haven't heard before, and probably you for me too) then feel free to message me x

[flatpackhamster]

I'm struggling to see how your tiresome pedantry invalidates the point I'm trying to make, or in fact brings anything at all to the discussion.

[TheHammaconda]

All mixed economies, free market economies don't exist.

[flatpackhamster]

TheHammaconda

TBF Flatpack, I can't think of a single free market economy

There are varying degrees of 'free', but any Western European economy would do as a benchmark. The US, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada.

[TheHammaconda]

TBF Flatpack, I can't think of a single free market economy :)

[flatpackhamster]

mewmeow

Capitalism is fundamentally flawed as it exist's on the basis of a profit motive which by its nature requires workers (the majority) to be constantly exploited, ie not be paid what their labour is worth. This creates a division where by all profit is skimmed to the core from the periphery.

Are communist workers not exploited? How does the state best know the value of an individual's labour?

Trickle down policy has been proven time and time again to be a fallacy, in actuality money is continuely sucked out away from the periphery to the core (elite).

That doesn't explain why living standards stagnate in every command economy and rise in a free market one.

It may appear that inequality has lessened due to the progression afforded to the masses of western countries in terms of technological and material advancements (under a capitalism system), however not only is this not the case in terms of capital, there is a huge amount of exploited (mainly in developing countries but also here) paying the price for these luxuries.

Ahh, those poor 'exploited' in developing countries. It's true they don't earn much by our standards. And the hours are long and the work isn't fun and fulfilling. But if it's so awful, why do they go to work in these places? Well, the main reason is that it's better than the alternative. The alternative is returning to granddad's farm and working 14 hours a day in the paddy fields.

Industrialisation (funded by capitalists) is liberating the developing world from poverty. And as a consequence of that increased wealth, a new middle class is demanding political and social change. China has real problems with its new middle class who don't want to be dictated to by a bunch of old gits with red flags. The same happened across the Western world from the 17th century onwards. Democracy and Liberty are things affordable to the middle classes, who have the time and energy to campaign for them.

You may ask why inequality is an issue if you are of the neo-liberal persuasion, it is an issue because countries with high levels of inequality have proved time and time again to have the biggest social problems, this includes high crime rates, high mortality and morbidity rates, high suicide rates, low employment rates etc. Problems which affect both rich and poor.

This was IIRC a claim by Wilkinson & Pickett in their 'spirit level', wasn't it? (Hardly 'time and time again'). And IIRC (and I do) their methodology was flawed because they cherry picked countries which fitted their figures.

On the other hand socio-democratic countries such as Sweden & Scandinavia have proved the benefits of state ownership and a peaceful and democratic move away from the constraints and fundamental flaws of capitalism. They consistently do well both economically and socially in terms of gdp's and things like employment and education.

That isn't a command economy. That's a free market economy. If anything they demonstrate the success of the free market and capitalism rather than the reverse.

Can you think of a single command economy which has, over the long term (say 50 years) kept pace in any way with its free market equivalents?

[claig]

"He said Bala had a brilliant mind and was an amazing speaker, and his message was that China would liberate “fascist” Britain.

Mr Heslop said: “He was handsome and dressed neatly. He was charismatic. His flaw was that he was 100% revolutionary.

“If people said he was brainwashing others he said he was cleaning their brains. He would say, ‘I am the Christ, follow me,’ and people would.

"He was never violent, he was too self controlled. But women abandoned their futures for him.

“He wasn’t holding these women by force, he just kind of got them to believe he was like Jesus Christ.

"He was potent and could more or less do whatever he wanted.”


www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-slaves-women-followed-comrade-2859823

He was a good talker and the women taken in didn't realise that it was all bullshit.

Very sad, but it shows the power of ideas.

As the world's number one conspiracy theorist always says
"there is a war on for your mind"
and if you fall for lies and deception, then you will be misled.

I bet 'Comrade Bala' also believed in manmade global warming, that would fit right in with the rest of the communist crap.

[claig]

Yes, I doubt that he used brainwashing or hypnosis or any techniques like that associated with a cult. My guess is he just used the "thought" in the Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought.

The women believed it, even someone from a middle class family who went to Cheltenham Ladies' College, then studied law at university and then went on to do a masters at the LSE.

That is why I believe it is so important to expose the fallacies and evils of communism, so that no one else falls into this trap, whose aim is to enslave the entire world in a tyrannical system for the benefit only of the hidden ruling elite.

[Grennie]

This is being portrayed in the media as a cult. There are many ways to enslave people.

[claig]

Does anyone know if 'Comrade Bala' ever actually did a day's work in his life?

Was he actually a "worker" or was he a scrounger living off the inheritance and money and labour of the women whom he misled in his futile fight to end what he believed was the 'British fascist state'?

[claig]

I think 'Comrade Bala' was a misguided man and possibly worse who conned some very clever women and led them to spend their lives supporting him and his ridiculously pompous organisation - The Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought.

I wish that someone had pointed out to these clever women the fallacies of these communist beliefs before they had spent their whole lives and work and money supporting this individual known as 'Comrade Bala' and I hope that schools educate children today about these erroneous beliefs and prevent anyone else falling into cults or organisations like this in the future.

[claig]

'Not evening knowing what the term bourgeouis refers to'

I know what bourgeois means as stated in dictionaries and from the French as portrayed by Moliere in his excellent hilarious play "Le bourgeois gentilhomme" written way before marx ever wrote Das Kapital. I admit that I am not a student of the Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought and am a student of the Daily Mail instead, and therefore didn't know the sense in which Marx decided to use the term "bourgeois".

We aren't moving to a socio-democratic model, we already have one. We have a capitalist economy with elements of socialism.

'Just think it is a bit off to use this incident to smear supporters of socialist principals'

I am not smearing socialist thought. I am not against socialists, I am only against the elite. However, I do think it is sad that some very clever people can be taken in by the fallacies of the Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought, which I believe to be a misguided organisation that does not understand who the real elite are, and who have misused the term "bourgeoisie" to refer to those who own the means of production, when in fact millions of ordinary people are owners and shareholders in many of the means of production.

[mewmeow]

Sorry for the hijack of the post.

Claig, if you agree that we should be moving towards a more socio-democratic model (as you are beginning to allude to) then our views aren't so far different after all.
If not why not? As we have already established these are the countries running the smoothest in terms economical and social cohesions.
I didn't mean to hijack the post as ended up doing so. just think it is a bit off to use this incident to smear supporters of socialist principals (especially since the majority of the people doing are doing so with little to no information on the subject. Not evening knowing what the term bourgeouis refers to!).

[claig]

The woman who died was at the LSE with Cherie Blair apparently. She attended Cheltenham Ladies' College.

The whole case is very sad.

"Ms Davies, who was 44 when she died, was brought up in a middle-class family in North Wales and attended the prestigious Cheltenham Ladies' College.


She was drawn in to the Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought after she moved to London for university in 1977.


Ms Davies, who was privately educated in Wales before studying law at Aberystwyth University, died in 1997, seven months after she fell from the window of a Maoist home in Herne Hill, south London."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515491/Woman-linked-London-slave-house-University-Cherie-Blair.html

[claig]

Yes, I think they have said for a long time that they think she may be her daughter.

[yegodsandlittlefishes]

So anyway, getting back to the OP and the 3 women who were hostage for 30 years....Did anyone here hear the interview with the father of the girl who died falling out of a window 30 years ago...and it looks as though the 30 year old could be his granddaughter (same names cropped up). Or did I mishear and am confusing it with another story?

[claig]

"If there are any of those"

Piglet, it was a joke

[PigletJohn]

"If there are any of those"

Pah.

[claig]

I always agree with what is right and true, which is why I rarely disagree with the Daily Mail Editorial Comment. I am not sure if the same can be said about mewmeow!

[claig]

Yes, there are some Tory crooks. I am not sure if all of those ones are, but either way, I have no time for crooks and thieves, and want a real "ethical" government, not one of these charity type "ethical" organisations.

[PacificDogwood]

Nooooo, PigletJohn, don't engage, don't engage, step down, step down, step down!!

claig and mewmeow have something lovely going on here, I don't think we should disturb but I do think they should get a room

I enjoy a bit of rubbernecking when people cannot or don't want to agree to disagree

[PigletJohn]

If? If? If?

If there is an Archer? An Aitken? A Hamilton? A Hanningfield? A Dorries? A Zahawi?

Either you are pretending to be unaware of Tory crooks, or you have a mental defect that causes you to be unable to see them.

[claig]

'and presumably you would also want to have fewer Tory crooks as well?'

If there are any of those, then yes absolutely.

[PigletJohn]

and presumably you would also want to have fewer Tory crooks as well?