Summer babies do less well academically in part due to streaming.

[TwistTee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21699054

I read this article with great interest and much concern. My 4 yr old daughter, born at the end of August already shows some signs of a lack of confidence and poor concentration when compared to the older kids in her class. Not surprising as some of them are almost a whole year older.
It worries me that she could potentially always be behind and I often question if we made the right decision in starting her schooling at age 4.
I'd be interested in your thoughts and experiences of summer babies in this context. Any tips on confidence issues?
And does anyone have a view on the issue of streaming as mentioned in the article? Her school are about to sort the kids but have not yet decided how. Her teacher said they might do it by age, ability or random. I was keen on the former as it would mean she stays in a class of 20 as opposed to a class of 30.

[lainiekazan]

I agree with Lijkk. People on MN trumpet on about equal life chances and social equality, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it would be MC parents who would keep their dc down a year.

When dd started school there was a meeting in the summer beforehand about staggered start dates. There was quite a vocal group of, er, a certain type of mother complaining about this and wanting their dcs to start full-time straightaway (and fwiw I know that they do not go out to work).

I would have killed to keep dd down a year as she is an end of August birthday. In fact I wish I had never sent her to infant school at all

[racingheart]

OP, I wouldn't worry. There is a noticeable gap when they are young but imho it closes (2 DC, both summer born).

And half the battle is trying to remind the teachers that they are younger. I got so fed up of teachers telling me X was reading sentences in Yr 1, and now we're in yr 2 and DS2 has only just learned to do this. But X was 10 months older than DS2, so was actually older when he reached the same attainment level. I also had to reassure DC that their friends weren't cleverer than them, just older.

But the gap closed, suddenly and markedly in junior school and DC both found they were in the top groups by yr 4-5. In fact, if I'd kept DS1 back a year because he was born so late, he'd have been clawing the walls with boredom. Our school only actually streams (grouping across the year group, not just in class) in yr 6 and both late summer born DC were in top groups by then.

[Mandy21]

OP I wouldn't worry either - I think the "evidence" is flawed because there are any number of variables that affect a child's development. Yes, they might have looked at the month a child was born but there is no "control". OK, lets follow child A who was born in Sept, and we'll compare her to child B who was born in August. How can anyone know whether the results would have been different if Child B had been born in Sept, and Child A had been born in August?! Child A might always have done well irrespective of when they were born. Then factor in the school, parents, whether they have older brothers and sisters etc.

[PuffPants]

If all the August-borns are deferred till the following year - thereby making them the very oldest in their year, don't the July children just become the youngest instead? Where does it end? Someone has to be the youngest.

[Talkinpeace]

Puffpants
HEAR HEAR

[diamondsneezer]

I think these articles are missing the point. Children are sent to school when they are too young.

If children started when they are a couple of years older, they would be able to cope much better with school and the demands it places on them. It isn't really about being the oldest or youngest in the class but being nearly 5 or only just 4.

We would think it ridiculous if we had a walking competition in October and entered all children who would be having their second birthday between September and August. Those with the autumn birthdays, i.e. age 2, would almost all be better walkers than the summer children, 13/14 month olds.

Of course, my example is silly but why do we expect that just 4 year olds can cope with full time education?

(And yes, I know that everyone knows someone who was born at the end of August and went to Oxford but the statistics and my personal experience has found a lot of summer strugglers).

[diamondsneezer]

What ever happened to the idea that the summer ones could start later if their parents wanted them to, while the autumn ones could go earlier if their parents felt they were ready? Wasn't this one of the political parties campaigning ideas?

[Talkinpeace]

diamondsneezer
Because it is impossible to budget for school places if you do not know how many children are coming up through the system.
Financial reality dictates that there have to be rules.
Or much higher taxes to pay for the free space in the system.

[lainiekazan]

Dd was born at the end of August and was premature to boot. She had a miserable first year at school. I could blame it on her age, but she is by nature not a joiner - she hates group activities, clubs, large gatherings... I think it was a combination of both.

I agree with racingheart that teachers are often unaware. In Reception they make a big deal about saying that they know all the ages and make allowances, but from Year One it's an irrelevance to them. Ds was moved from Reception to Year 2 (without my knowledge ) and then the teacher said to me that he was quite "babyish". Fgs - he was only five a few weeks beforehand and there he was with kids already 7. I moved him from that school!

[Pozzled]

Mandy21, the researchers do 'control' for the variables that you have mentioned. They compare very large sample sizes, they take into account other factors that can be measured, such as parents' level of education. They have found that the birth month IS linked to performance. The only other possible explanation that I can see is that a third factor is linked to both birth month and academic performance, which seems unlikely.

I've been saying all along that there are many other factors which affect performance/achievement- parental education, social deprivation etc. Month of birth is only one of them, but it does have an effect.

I wish people wouldn't keep dismissing years of scientific research- the effect is there, teachers/schools/the government need to decide how to mitigate its effects. My personal view is that allowing more flexibility will just shift the problem and further disadvantage the children of less-informed parents/poorer parents who can't afford childcare for another year.

I think a later school starting age, more play-based focus well into KS1, a revamp of the testing structure and a much more personalised approach to education is the way to go.

[FrameyMcFrame]

I've been saying this for the last 7 years regarding my DD.

[diamondsneezer]

Talkinpeace but it is foolish economic practice when more summer born children have SEN (which was another statistic to come out) and then need more support (which costs).

Again, going back to my analogy of making those 'turning 2' entering a walking race, it would be like declaring the slower children (the summer born) have something wrong with their legs and need to undergo physiotherapy...

But this is what happens in schools. See the latest 'Reading Recovery' programme readingrecovery.ioe.ac.uk/about.html

"Reading Recovery is designed for children aged five or six, who are the lowest achieving in literacy after their first year of school. These children are often not able to read the simplest of books or write their own name before the programme.

They are 5. Leave them alone

[Talkinpeace]

Thing is if kids start school later, then they are just at childcare for longer which is either state funded or private
affecting women's (the reality) ability to work and provide for their children.
or affecting the required tax take on all of us.

Maybe the answer is to have a more flexible early years curriculum for R and 1 so that the slower developers can chillax

but the reality is that when kids start University, unless they do it a year late, those who were born early in the academic year will have had more learning time before the start of term.

[whistleahappytune]

LaQueen, you cannot observe that a child is clever or not able. You can only observe the skills they have acquired or not acquired.

Which is not the same thing.

[majormoo]

Other countries start children at school much later and I do not see how packing kids off to school at 4 here provides us with many benefits in comparison to other countries.

Starting school was so much easier for my Autumn born son than my August born daughter. For a start he was less exhausted by the whole process. It also makes a big difference that he is physically more developed than some of the younger kids. He loves the fact that he is good at football and that his 6 year old friends think he is good. Possibly he is just lucky to be taller/have more stamina etc because he is older. For him i believe being older has given him advantages and given him confidence which spills over into his academic work. Most of the children in the top literacy and maths sets are surprise surprise Autumn born children

My daughter came on loads with a fantastic year two teacher who didn't even agree with setting the kids but had to. She brought in the 'no hands up', talk partners etc stuff at their school which made a big difference to the class.Now in year 5 it is true the gap between older and younger children appears to have closed considerably.

If i have the chance not to send my now 18month old august born son to school at 4 in a couple of years, I will take it.

[Talkinpeace]

majormoo
children of working Mums are in Nursery from 8am to 6pm five days a week.
how is school more tiring than that?
YES, the EYFC needs to be lightened up a bit but sending kids to school a year later is not the issue.

[majormoo]

well if you need childcare 8am-6am that need will not vanish on starting school surely?

A couple of friends in Sydney have recently posted first day at school photos
of their 5 and a half year old boys. Seemed odd to think my dd had done 18months in school by this point in her life.

[majormoo]

6pm not am clearly!!

[majormoo]

and in our case dd had been in nursery 3 days a week 8.30-6pm from ten months. she was still shattered starting school.

[Taffeta]

I would love to hear more insight, anecdote, evidence and opinion about streaming on this thread, in relation to summer borns in primary school.

It's a subject I've never seen raised as a thread before on MN.

[RB68]

Mine is at state primary and they work in ability groups. Effectively streaming them. They work by subject in ability groups so they may be different for maths or english or science etc. Mine is an August baby that was 2 mths prem so double whammy when she first went. Reception was hard for her but she loved it even though I toyed with the idea of not letting her do it - I wanted to let her have a chance of friend making which I struggled with at school. She is lucky in that in yrs 1,2 and now 3 she is in a mixed year group. Previously I would have been against this but it gives children a taste of what its like being in different poll positions!! So my youngie gets to be a middlie this year. They work together for group activities, art, PE and so on but also spend time in the week on other activities forest schools for half the class and something else for the other. So it really mixes them up and I find that through out the school they all know each other reasonably well and work together - a few times a year they have mixed year groups for specific projects and are expected to work from yr 6 to reception together .

Whilst ostensibly the splitting of the year group is done on age there are exceptions mostly to do with other special needs areas and sometimes getting the balance in classes right. Also down to the emotional maturity of individuals but sometimes other factors e.g. one of my daughters friends has a brother in yr 2 (another August) but only around 5 yr 2's were in the 1/2 year. He was one not on ability or emotional stuff but purely to separate them and give him chance to grow into his own person - and it has worked beautifully. It was done in consultation and with the agreement of the parents. I can also say I haven't noticed any stigma particularly in the divide.

DD is at least a term ahead of where she should be in all subjects and a full year plus in reading, but I think she could be pushed along a bit more but I am happy she is happy and enjoying school so also happy to leave things where they are keeping an eye on the fact she gets a good grounding.

[RB68]

Should also say I love the fact the school was 100 pupils when she joined with an intake of 17 & class of 17 for reception! Times change though and this year we were 30 intake and that will now continue and the school will be expanding, it is in a constrained site though so hopefully that will be as big as it gets without losing all the playing space or having to split the children for break times.