Train Guard Found Guilty Over Girl's Death

[blisterpack]

I saw this article today and am really confused. How can a train guard be found guilty of manslaughter when an accident like this happens? And the quote from the poor guard,
McGee told the jury he thought Georgia was moving away from the train when he gave the signal to depart. He also said he did not know how drunk she was.

Should he have known then?

[EmmelineGoulden]

I think if it's true that guards take these sorts of risks with safety all the time (as the link to the forum up thread implied), then the sentence could serve to help change that culture. And I think that would probably be a good thing (might make rail travel virtuallly impossible on some journeys).

I do feel a significant jail term if he simply failed to notice her is unfair, even if it's his job to look. People make mistakes, even when taking care. To go to jail for a long time for a mistake is harsh.

But if he allowed the train to go actually knowing she was leaning against it, or not really caring whether or not she was, then the sentence doesn't seem outrageous.

I trust that a jury and judge who saw the whole trial are better placed than an Internet forum in judging which scenario applies.

[izzyishavingababyAGAIN]

Thats not the only reason, his family, I have explained my views on the sentencing in a previous post. I cannot understand the sentence in conjunction with other sentences I have seen and read about, and having tried to think, well if this was my DC, is this what I would want, I am not sure it is. I don't know if I would want to see a second family destroyed for a tragic accident.

(re me not being the only, that is something I am sadly only too well aware of as well).

[izzyishavingababyAGAIN]

Mention it? Do you mean his family? Because it is part of my thinking, it is not all of my thinking.

[Vev]

This is a tragic waste of a young girl's life. An accident that needn't have happened. Are the people who supplied her with booze and drugs going to be taken to task? Had there been no impairment in her mind she would have heard the whistle and the warnings that the train was about to move and taken her hands from the window. It has been made to sound normal that 16 year old kids get drunk/take drugs every weekend.

Yes the guard was negligent in his duty, but he was doing his job as a guard, not a childminder and the sentence seems harsh.

Poor girl and poor fella.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

yes, doing his job as a guard making sure passengers are safe!

[citybranch]

I am a Tube Driver who does mainly late shifts and I deal with a lot of drunk people every night of the week. Tubes are 'one-person-operated', in my case I use in-cab CCTV to make sure that I'm clear to close the doors and then to depart.

If an accident occurred as a result of me not making those checks correctly it would be MY fault. No question.

The thought of dragging an child (or adult) fills me with horror and the possibility of an incident is always in the back of my mind. I make sure I am as consciencious as is humanly possible to make sure that it won't happen.

It is a comparatively well-paid, safety critical role and the consequences are grave for those who take their eye off the ball. There is no room for staff error when you are dealing with 660 volts in the track, combined with trains that weigh 150 tonnes each.

I have heard enough horror stories in the 8 years I've been working on the railway to know that you don't take chances. This guard had been in the job since 1992...

[VivaLeBeaver]

Citybranch, there was a child dragged to their death under a tube to many years ago in London. His coat was caught in the door. Do you know if that tube driver was prosecuted?

[VivaLeBeaver]

Sorry, should have read not many years ago.

[citybranch]

I know of the incident at Holborn in the 1990s where the boy's coat toggle was caught in the doors and he died. (the thought of this particular one haunts me, and I'm sure if I think about it too long I would lose my bottle for the job entirely!)

As far as I know the platform was extremely crowded and this prevented the driver and guard (the tube still had guards then) having a clear view, so nobody would have been prosecuted. Generally, the train wouldn't be able to depart if something was caught but very small/thin articles of clothing are undetectable. Even these days.

To be honest, the platforms are so crowded (i'm thinking Bank, evening peak) that you can't see very much at all, just a mass of people. In those cases I depart slowly and watch carefully for any unusual kerfuffle on the platform, and just be prepared to stop.

[blisterpack]

citybranch what do you think of the verdict and sentencing?

[VivaLeBeaver]

Yes it was Holborn I was thinking of. Thanks.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'd love to be a tube driver btw, my dream job. Am nowhere near London though.

[diddl]

Well she was at a private party first, wasn´t she-and then onto the city to carry on celebrating?

What I find odd is if she got off at the wrong station-why didn´t she just get back on?

Why didn´t her friends stop her getting off?

[emsyj]

I can't answer the question of why she got off at the wrong stop diddl because I wasn't there, but I can tell you that all the Liverpool underground stations look exactly the same - same colours, same decor, same seating, same platform layout and flooring. I often have to check twice to make sure I'm at the right station, so it is possible it took her some time to realise that she was at the wrong one - the signs with the name on are sparse, spaced out and well above eye level so if she didn't look up she could have got quite a way along the platform before realising. Also it is reported that she had previously got off the train and back on again earlier on the route, so suspect she was just so drunk she didn't have a clue where she was.

I think she did try to get back on but they didn't open the doors to allow her to, hence the banging on the window.

[citybranch]

I primarily agree with the verdict itself. He was employed there to despatch trains safely, he didn't do it. He had the power to hold the train a few seconds until he was sure the girl was a safe distance away. it is the sole reason he is there. There are drunk people around every evening, they are of all different ages, it doesn't matter who she was. I see ageing men in business suits playing the fool on the platform edge regularly, they should know better.

This man was a licensed, safety critical member of staff who did not perform his checks adequately.

That said, I'm sure he isn't a bad guy and I thought the 5 year sentence was harsh. I'd prefer to see dangerous/drunk drivers and sex offenders get that!
It will be very hard for him in prison, I would think, and he'll probably be haunted by what happened. Terrible for his family.

[edam]

I guess she got off at the wrong stop because she was pissed and high. Poor girl.

Do still feel sorry for the poor guard - one bad decision, made in a fleeting moment, and a girl is dead and he's guilty of manslaughter. Seems very harsh to send him to prison given people who kill on the roads - even people who are doing a job on the roads, such as lorry drivers - are given far lighter sentences. I know lorry drivers don't have safety critical roles in quite the same way, but even so.

AND it's only ever the poor sods at the bottom of the heap who are ever done for deaths at work. It's never the chief exec of the hospital who decided to cut staffing and put patients in danger, it's always the nurse who was the only qualified member of staff trying to look after 20 elderly confused patients who all need help feeding and going to the loo. It's never the boss of the construction company or factory that cuts corners and causes a death. It's never the fat cat chief exec of the company that dumps toxic waste in the Ivory Coast...

None of this injustice means the guard was innocent of course. He did a terrible thing. But he's been treated far more harshly than other people who are just as responsible for avoidable deaths, IMO.

[citybranch]

Actually, I'm looking at the picture again. If a lone teenage girl is banging on the train to get back on then you allow her to get back on, surely? Anyone who purposely allows a drunk youngster to be seperated from her friends isn't a particularly nice man.

So he sees to it that she's stranded alone on a platform, then he despatches the train while she's leaning on it, despite this being the exact opposite of his job description.

[blisterpack]

Thank you citybranch, it's interesting to hear the perspective of someone 'in the industry'.

[CagneyNLacey]

Did he attempt to drive off and leave her stranded after the last train had gone? I thought I read that it was the last train. If so that's really just another level of horrible isn't it? Stranding a drunk and vulnerable teenager in an underground station.

I was surprised at the sentence too but it seems he had a good clear view and signalled to pull off anyway. Someone upthread said they've seen the cctv footage and he deserved 5 years for what he did as the camera angle is the view from just behind his head. Just an awful, awful thing for everyone involved.

[Lovecat]

As others on this thread have said, the sentence may seem harsh in the light of other sentences passed for manslaughter by reckless driving etc., but surely the answer to that is to make the sentences for driving much harsher?

Someone died. Someone died who didn't have to. I think 5 years is probably a bit lenient.

[emsyj]

They were travelling into Liverpool, Cagney, not going home - and Liverpool is really small. If she hadn't been in such a bad way, she was only a short walk from all of the other underground stations in the city centre so she wouldn't have been 'stranded' as such - she'd have just had to walk around to whichever station they'd been planning to get off at and meet her friends there (assuming they'd have waited for her.....) But obviously she was in no fit state to look after herself and find her way to meet her friends. The guard said he didn't realise what condition she was in, so it could be that he thought he was just going to inconvenience her by causing her to have a 10 minute walk rather than intentionally leaving her stranded.

[citybranch]

I always re-open the doors if a couple/family/group run on as they are closing and half of them don't make it. Looking at that still of Georgia on the platform alone, wanting to get back on, I would re-open. No skin off my nose, its a few seconds. I wouldn't think twice. No controller has ever pulled me up on a delay.