Another man supposedly cured by Atos dies.

[NicholasTeakozy]

Atos benefit bullies killed my dad

Why is there not a punishment clause in their contract that forces them to pay out millions to those who are wrongly taken off benefit? (Rhetorical. We all know the reason)

What a shower of utter cunts.

[Solopower1]

Expat, so sorry to hear about your daughter.

[Solopower1]

Pootles is right, though. That is what is behind the government's desire to privatise state services - they don't want the responsibility when things go wrong. They call it shrinking the State and giving us all more responsibility for our own actions, but it's directly related to them trying to make sure we vote for them, because they can say it's not their fault when the private companies, who are only doing what the government wants them to do, cut corners or make mistakes.

[Solopower1]

But I'm sure ATOS should also bear some of the blame. Some of their assessors and decisions sound inhuman.

[hackmum]

NicholasTeakozy: after much reflection, I'd rather be a cuntworm than a member of the Atos medical assessment panel.

[AmberLeaf]

The gov wants to kill off the sick and disabled.

Someone I know has recently been put in the WRAG [work related activity group] this person is not fit for work and never will be, they recieve higher rate care and mobility of DLA, use a wheelchair and are chronically ill.

If their appeal is unsuccessful they will lose their ESA, signing on for JSA is not an option as they can't seek work they cannot do!

The stress of all of this is immense.

Its so wrong.

But its ok for some eh IDS?

[threesocksmorgan]

yes the blame for all this can be laid at the governments feet, they are actually killing disabled people

[swallowedAfly]

i'm in the scary position of coming off of incapacity and into work in a week or so. i have an appointment on monday with an advisor at the job centre which apparently won't take longer than 20mins because it's only about handing me forms to apply for back to work credit etc rather than the advice and support service it is sort of flagged as.

what is really scary is the gamble i am taking on my health. if it craps out on me and i end up incapacitated again god knows what will happen to me with the system as it now is. i count myself extremely lucky that i never had to deal with atos - pure luck that my file must have been towards the bottom of whatever pile it is they're working through.

[swallowedAfly]

and expat i too am extremely sorry about your daughter. how awful to have to deal with all of this on top of that

[2old2beamum]

Have posted this before. DD summoned to ATOS assessment 25 miles away at 09.15 first catch 4 buses.
DD has Down syndrome, complex heart defect with pacemaker, poorly controlled asthma (TBH due partly to her learning disabilities).
Despite letters from cardiologist, GP, SW and support worker stating she was not capable of work she was put in the WRAG category. I saw her medical report it stated of average height she is 4' 2"!! We won the appeal

Dreading DS's assessment Downs epilepsy perhaps he could drive a bus providing he could change his pants after he has pissed himself.

Hope you are coping Expat it is so hard.

Threesocks what job would your DD like?

BLOODY BASTARDS

[AmberLeaf]

Glad to hear you won on appeal 2old2.

[80sMum]

For those who were wondering, it is possible to work after a stroke, providing your mental faculties have remained intact. My bil had a stroke about 3 years ago, was partially paralysed, has slurred speech and has difficulty walking. He was desperately keen to get back to work and indeed did go back after a few months. About 18 months later he had a life threatening heart problem (an aortic dissection) and spent 8 hours in surgery and 3 weeks in hospital. He went back to
work a couple of months later. Everyone's different. That's why these assessments are needed.

[AmberLeaf]

The assessments don;'t work though, thats the problem.

[swallowedAfly]

yes everyone is different BUT the important reality being ignored is whether the will to employ these people exists.

i mean YES a person with a mood disorder who can have several months in a row absolutely fine given peaceful, stressful conditions and no triggers can in theory work in that time but the reality may be that for the last decade those few months are the most they've ever had in a row before a major episode that rendered them incapacitated and was ONLY achieved when they were able to totally control their daily interactions/environment etc. you can assess them and say yes they're capable of working BUT are they capable of holding a job over time given the reality of work and it's conditions?

or a person in a wheelchair paralysed down one side given the above example - maybe they're keen willing and able to do a job but does the job exist that they can do? a place with the right facilities and access, with an interviewing panel that will take that person etc etc?

it's all very well saying look this downs syndrome young woman can do x, y and z so technically she's capable of working but does the employer who can take on and safeguard her actually exist?

in the interests of honesty i have bipolar (mildly, no psychotic history, no crazy classic how it's portrayed stuff) and cfs that developed out of glandular fever as a teen and has come and gone since. i am intelligent, i am very well educated and i'm incredibly capable when i am well i've just landed a great job and i AM capable of it BUT.... i don't know for sure what a couple of months down the road will bring and realistically employers cannot deal with someone who is regularly incapacitated for weeks at a time. i hope that won't happen. i hope i'm a long way on from where i was last time i was in a professional vocation and that i've chosen a role and hours that i can cope with and have my life in a place that can work with that etc etc. but i cannot guarantee it - i wish i could believe me because i'd love to be free of this shite but through no fault of my own i'm stuck with it and my confidence is somewhat crushed from facing constructive dismissal (negotiated to hand in notice in return for x months pay because i couldn't face tribunal and months of hell when i was ill) last time i was in formal employment.

what the govt and atos and like agencies have to recognise is that disability and chronic ill health is not like an on/off switch - it has complex ongoing implications that tend to be incompatible with the world of employment. it's like the epileptic sufferers who are being told well you only have three fits a week you can work. well, yes in theory but name me the employer who can cope with someone having 3 fits a week and needing the care that comes with them and to go home and sleep for 12hrs afterwards etc. they are pretending things are far simpler than they are.

[Solopower1]

Good post, SwallowedAfly.

Maybe ATOS should be required to find the employer who will give a job to the person they have just pronounced as being fit for work.

[swallowedAfly]

and please bear in mind that to say 'i have bipolar' on an anonymous forum is HARD enough so how the hell would one tell an employer and the people you have to work with everyday?

every time i say or type that i have a mental health condition i'm aware of the prejudice i'm stirring and of how i'm enabling the future discrediting of anything i may say or do - does that make sense?

you cannot in an interview say oh by the way i have the same dx as jean off eastenders who is portrayed to be x, y and z - still fancy giving me the job? so then you are faced with whether to be honest on forms, contracts etc. if you choose honesty you likely won't get the job (whatever discrimination laws say because let's face it i'm not taking them to court nor can i prove i was the 'perfect person' for the job and they purely discounted me on my health), if you choose dishonesty you face the fact that if you get ill and the doctor signs you off naming your condition your employment rights are basically undone because you lied on your application.

there are a hell of a lot of people who are technically 'fit for work' but are entirely unfit for the modern workplace, rules, expectations etc.

i can't wait to see the poor people suffering from three epileptic fits a week being sent to tesco for workfare because they can't get a job. how will tesco cope with workers fitting in the aisles?

[swallowedAfly]

xposted - thank you solo. yes that would be good - if they had to say YES you are fit for work and hear are ten jobs currently being advertised that you would have a realistic chance of getting with your conditions.

you know someone who can blink once for yes and two for no is perfectly capable of working in an ideal world. in the real world there is no job that could accommodate to him.

[Solopower1]

One part of me thinks that it is good for the rest of us to have people like you as our colleagues, not least because it would educate us, and open our minds to the sort of problems you have and the contributions you can make.

The other part of me thinks it is monstrously unfair on you to have to be in the position of educating other people and exposing yourself to their ignorance. Plus the stress of it all could have serious consequences for your future health.

But the main thing is tha, as you say, it's much more difficult for you to get a job in the first place.

With ATOS, it should be a collaborative approach between the person who is being assessed and the assessors. It should be 'What sort of things do you think you can do?' 'What problems would you face if you were to go back to work, and how could we help you with them?' and 'How can we help you to find a job, if you feel you can do one?' rather than 'Whatever you say, we have our targets, and although we know you're unfit for work, we're going to make sure we get a pat on the head from our bosses.'

[threesocksmorgan]

2old2beamum I hope they do tell her to get a job, would love the ensuing DM article.

[Solopower1]

Xposted too.

[threesocksmorgan]

"down syndrome young woman"
I assume you mean a "young woman with downs syndrome"

[swallowedAfly]

yeah because that was the most important part of my post wasn't it three? a nitpick at the way i phrased a sentence despite the fact of the sentiment being entirely clear.

yes i meant a woman with downs syndrome. and i guess i should have referred to myself as a woman with bipolar disorder and my son as being a boy with brown hair for fear his brown hair may have pigeon holed him if i'd called him a brown haired boy.

[pumpkinsweetie]

I would like to know where these so called jobs are for people with complex conditions, terminal illness & disabilities!
The goverment are a disgusting bunch of immoral cunts who will be happy when they have killed everyone on benefits off so they can save money

[threesocksmorgan]

my dh was told by the lady at JS to try a bar job.
yeah cos someone with Epilepsy should really work behind a bar!!

[2old2beamum]

Swallowedafly I am afraid threesocksmorgan is right regardless of the disability they are people first. I went loopy last week one someone described her sister as epileptic petty maybe but wrong

[AmberLeaf]

I think that was entirely forgivable given the content of Swalloweds entire post TBF