Shal we wait and see who the rioters and looters actually are before reaching a conclusion about why they did it?

[lashingsofbingeinghere]

Am I alone in thinking we need to stop assuming all the rioters come from a particular class/background?

At Highbury Magistrates, the first person tried for looting was a classroom assistant. Another was a man with a prison record, yet another was unemployed. Elsewhere I believe a graphic designer has been charged with looting/affray.

Shall we wait and see who the culprits are before rushing in with solutions?


I have posted in the same vein before, but I feel nothing but frustration that all the pundits, politicians and police are not waiting to see actually Who Has Done This before pointing the finger at Where The Blame Lies.

I know we can assume that vicars, pensioners and babies were not involved in the looting, but this assumption all the perps have been badly parented and are socially excluded is just supposition, unless we all enter into a lovely circular argument that you must be socially excluded to riot and rioting proves you must be socially excluded.

I await with interest a socio-economic breakdown of the perps.

[organicgardener]

Punish the looters and rioters.

THEN solve the social issues why they took place.

[NimpyWindowmash]

Plenty of working people and university students among the rioters. Certainly not people with no hope for the future. It makes it harder to explain this away as the result of poverty and social exclusion.

[Solopower]

No, what is so startling about these disturbances is that they can't be lumped together as bread riots, protests against the police or demonstrations against the cuts. I think the nature of the incidents varied from place to place just like the people involved.

The important thing is that they should not be used as excuses for getting at one section of society. Anyone can be greedy, opportunistic, carried away by the excitement. But it takes a very different sort of person who can rob an injured teenager, set a building alight, beat up a 68-year-old - and it is totally irrelevant whether that sort of criminal lives in a council house or a palace

[baffledmum]

Class is irrelevant as is background. But it comes to something when you're under siege from someone with a £300 smartphone and £100 trainers wanting more. I was at work the other day when my kids' holiday club was caught up in this. Little sods were pelting my 5 year olds from outside of a playground with stones and swearing at them. Disgraceful. Shame on the lot of them.

[LolaRennt]

I don't care who they are or where they came from. Greed is why they did it

[hairfullofsnakes]

What they are is scum. SCUM.

[SoupDragon]

Only the people involved in the original riot would have a reason other than greed. the other riots appear to have been planned and carried out by greedy little shits who think they are entitled to something for nothing. Nothing to do with class.

[RachelMumsnet]

We're going to be moving this thread, along with all the other threads about the riots - to 'In the news' so that they are altogether.

[EdithWeston]

Two issues here:

a) find, arrest and prosecute the criminals. It is in no-one's interests to set an example of getting off or letting off. Whatever the reason (other than insanity) an individual must answer for their actions. Regardless of their background.

b) do what OP rightly suggests. Look at who has done what. Do not jump to conclusions. Do not try to hitch this to your political bandwagon (as some are doing before we're even sure it's over FFS!). As Ed Miliband said this morning, none of this emerged overnight. We do need to find out the nature and extent of the failures of the last 14-20 years. We do need to make sure we do everything we can to prevent a future cohort turning to a criminal binge of this sort. And salvage the current cohort wherever possible.

And we shouldn't overlook

c) the law abiding peers of this cohort.

[catgirl1976]

I can't see how it is relevant what class they are. This was not a political protest. There might be socio-economic pressures that have contributed too the situaiton but regardless the actions were wrong and should be punished without concern for class or social background.

[survivingsummer]

YANBU OP

I think there will be a huge range of reasons why people got involved in the riots although the press will only concentrate on the real yobs who did it for kicks. I do think some will have been there for other reasons though and that society needs to take these reasons on board along with condemning the lawlessness and violence perpetrated by many of the gangs.

I work within Childrens Services which has been heavily cut. Many of us worked with kids like these and their parents doing preventative work which in many cases was making a difference. Now there is nothing to support these families and I know from working with these people that some people have no idea how to parent their kids at all. Clearly, these things are at the root of the problem but I don't expect the government to backtrack on their cuts so therefore this will only get worse...

[Laquitar]

YANBU. I totally agree.

[DontGoCurly]

Yeh, water cannons, batons and jail for some.

Cups of tea, hugs and understanding for others.

That'll solve everything

[meatmountain]

I think they should be arrested first to avoid causing more damages.
I am a Chinese girl.My friend Charlotte has just moved to the north of london.She is working in a cinema.She hasnt replied my email for a days.I hope she is all right.

[joric]

What they did has earned them all sorts of 'labels' OP.

[joric]

I really am not interested in whether or not they fit a particular stereotype or not. They should be judged on their acts over the last few days. The defence lawyers will no doubt be laying it on thick with certain 'clients'.
I have no sympathy. They were not stealing food to survive.
What we saw was pure greed.
IMO they have no defence.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Trouble is that all the court-cases show are the thick or slow ones that got caught. The real villains will be slipping quietly away, having sent the little kids in to do the dirty work. I have no illusions about this all being exclusive to lower socio-economic groups. I do not believe that recreational rioting is confined to the deprived. In the days of football hooliganism there used to be plenty of white-collar thugs.... also beating the place up for fun

[lashingsofbingeinghere]

Well, I am glad someone agrees with my point .

My personal view is there was a failure by the police to take control early on, and copy cat looting and violence spread due to the massive media coverage and people using social media to arrange attacks on buildings.

I think we may be surprised at how many of the rioters don't fit the mould - ie history of extreme poverty and social exclusion. I am not really interested in calling any of them scum, not because I don't think what they did was appalling, but it just doesn't get us anywhere.

[cjbartlett]

Exactly
Unless they had a knife to their back telling them to steal tshirts they're all culpable

[AuntieMonica]

i don't care who they are, they are wrong to loot and cause such damage

[Salmotrutta]

We don't need to know who they are to know why they did it!

They did it because they are yobs and thugs who saw an opportunity to engage in unlawful assembly, smash and loot and carry out a bit of casual arson for good measure. Without thought for the saftey or livelihoods of others in their own community.

And I'm a bit fed up of the "easily led teenager" excuse.
Easily led might excuse sneaking a quick fag behind the bike sheds or pinching vodka from your parents' drinks cupboard.
It certainly doesn't excuse you for not getting the hell out of it when something like this kicks off.

[cjbartlett]

Here here auntiepicklebottom

[valiumredhead]

In answer to the OP - er no.

[AuntiePickleBottom]

they are fuckwits who have got no respect

[KaySirah]

if you follow @skynewsgatherer on twitter she was in croydon mags all day