5 Bristol university student suicides since the start of this academic year. Why?

[Restorativepowersoftea]

This is so sad and such a shock. Why so many at Bristol though?

[bojorojo]

There are lots of students who do handle university well and have well rounded lives whilst there. I certainly can see from MN that there is a high degree of angst but most young people do sort out accommodation, adjust to university work and find a job that suits them. Yes they may have to plan but so did people years ago. Not all graduates go into highly competitive areas of work but many years ago DH worked in the holidays in a job that set him up for his future job applications upon graduation. Also no-one back then had a gap year. No-one knew what that was! Let alone gap years after graduation which several people we know have done.

It is also possible to get a decent degree and have a good time and participate in life at university. You don't always have to work that hard to succeed and a first doesn't open doors if there are other skills missing. The other skills should start at school be be embedded by the time the young person gets to university. Clearly some people do have problems with coping but if they cry because they cannot adjust to university work I do think they needed to take time about to adjust to requirements and have an introductory year. Although these are not always available.

However I know DD was amazed that some students were unable to write essays. They thought language acquisition was all that was needed on an MFL degree so they were under-prepared. Schools and universities do need to explain to students without essay A levels the level of essay writing required. Also the amount of work needed for ab initio languages. It is very hard for some.

[Peanutbuttercheese]

Ratio of staff to students has dropped.

Way back in 1994 I worked in a dept that had approx 50 students per year by the time I left the numbers had almost doubled. The staff numbers hadn't.

I left higher education 4 years ago, it's a very different beast to when most people on this thread studied.

Uncapped numbers, I can't remember exactly the new formula but more pressure. Plus some Universities are centralising all their admin staff in to huge super offices. It means students don't see the same on the ground front of house staff all the time. I actually think that is a very negative thing, there was a lovely secretary in the dept I studied in she always had time for students she was more like an Auntie.

First dept I worked in it was expected that students could drop by to see personal tutors almost anytime. Last dept it was appointment only. You could have people drop in when the numbers were small, now it's impossible as you would not be able to achieve anything due to interruption.

Setting a target of 50% of young people to attend University was always ridiculous because 50% of all jobs are not graduate level. That's the pressure, all that debt and what chance of that elusive training post.

I started working at the end of the golden age of higher education and I cannot tell you how depressing it's been seeing it destroyed.

[SharkBaitOohHaHa]

catslife, the article you linked to was quite thought-provoking. I think the media definitely need to act more responsibly around the reporting of these events.
Thinking about it, when I was at university, I was aware of a number of students who lost their lives. The thing is, I don't remember ever seeing their cause of death, anywhere. When incidents like that occurred, the University Prinicpal would send out an email informing the student body of the news, write a bit about the student, ask that the family's privacy be respected and link to where services could be found (support charities, mental health services etc). I am sure a number of those deaths probably were suicides, but they were never explicitly reported as such.

I wouldn't want to comment on any apparent increase in student mental health difficulties, though. It would all be purely speculation.

[EnormousTiger]

It's very sad. My daughter really enjoyed Bristol and was very happy there and it is possbile the younger children will go there. I don't think it's a specifically a Bristol issue and the last student sucide there I think happened when the person was at home out of term time I think.

If we can get young (and older) people to eat really healthy foods and get outside and walk or cycle or do sport that often really does cheer people up quite a bit. I am not suggesting it as a solution to serious mental health issues of course but for the run of the mill student feeling a bit fed up those things help. The problem is alcohol, late nights, lack of sleep and bad food (my other daughter was talking about pot noodles for students earlier) are a recipe for feeling fed up. I have told my sons who will go later this year the most important thing to pack is ear plugs.

[bojorojo]

Cycling and sport wouldn't cheer me up! Horses for courses! A jam doughnut might!

[EnormousTiger]

My psychiatrist father used to suggest exercise. It doesn't matter what it is - a walk, a yoga class, a swim, whatever you prefer. It boosts beta endorphins. The trouble with a sugar and carbs high is it quickly ups you and then you go shooting right down so it doesn't work in the same way as exercise does to stabilise mood and make you happier.. Mind you I don't take my own advice. The furthest I've walked to tonight was from the car to the restaurant.

[BoboChic]

I was at Bristol, as was my DSS1 (so a generation apart) and both of us thought the lifestyle was fantastic - lots of walking around, friendly student faces, attractive buildings and streets with plenty of trees. Easy to cater etc. It's not a depressing place to live per se.

I think the pressures on young people are very, very real, however.

[bojorojo]

I know your Father is correct Enormous and I do walk the dog! Bristol is a great place to live and certainly not depressing. Everything a student could want is there. Sadly the student who died didn't live there.

[FlyAwayPeter]

I'm not scaremongering

You are, though.

I'm not at Bristol, but at another "highly regarded" university (we're very lucky in the UK to have one of the best HE systems in the world). I have troubled students, but believe me, it's not the university which makes them troubled. They generally come to us with diagnoses of depression, anxiety etc etc.

We have eased the work pressure if anything over the 30 years I've been an academic - I certainly had a more rigorous, wide-ranging & challenging degree experience with about a tenth of the support that I give my undergrads now. And I was at one of the best "top 5" universities in the world.

It's sad - that there is a generation of students, a minority of whom can't really cope. It's sad, because they are all talented, lovely bright eager individuals. BUt the schools,. the culture, their parents' expectations, and bloody neo-liberal ethos of push, push, push, and competition and austerity, serve to make these lovely bright kids anxious and scared.

It's not the universities, believe me.

[FlyAwayPeter]

Most universities are struggling with the massive increase of mental health problems in the student population. There is evidence to suggest that young people are becoming less and less resilient

This. Most of the students I deal with as a tutor who exhibit worrying mental ill-health come to university with such health issues already.

And you know what? There's little or no help or support for academic staff who have to deal with mentally unhealthy students. I have had to intervene to offer an informal "supervisory" support for colleagues who are dealing with the emotional fallout of students whose ill-health means they have little resilience, and are infantilised to the extent that they project their anxieties onto staff who "bully" when actually such staff are trying to help.

We do significant emotional labour which goes unrecognised, unpaid, and unsupported - and I'm seeing the costs to some brilliant young colleagues.

So let's not scapegoat ANY university. Universities are not health institutions, and we are in business of teaching and research, not nannying young people, some of whom, sadly, just shouldn't be at university until they're well.

[EnormousTiger]

I agree. I have some of the most laid back children I have seen and in some ways that's their greatest strength (although it worried me at times - apparently there is no need for the two of them to do A level revision this holiday as they'll just forget it by exam time as the A levels are ages away...... eek). I know one daughter had a friend with an eating disorder. The girl had it at school too and indeed the girl's mother had the same one. That is nothing to do with the university's fault and in fact she did very well at university and seems much better now in a great career but you can see why some children with problems just carry them through to university. I do with we could get students to sign when they join to agree their parents could be contacted if they had a serious issue (and then I might agree to fund the children on the basis they give that consent- not because I want to interfere if they have an STD or something, just because if they were virtually dead or about to be thrown out I'd quite like to be told so I could see if I could help).

[FlyAwayPeter]

I think that would just compound the problem, Enormous Tiger parents are sometimes the problem frankly!

But maybe MN is the wrong place to say that, as it seems very full of pushy parents.

[errorofjudgement]

I wish students would take a year off between A-levels and university. Not necessarily a middle-class "gap-yar" with trips down the Amazon or building an orphanage in Africa. Just a time and space to get off the exam treadmill, get some life experience in a low paid job requiring no mental skills, and have some fun in the time off.
I'm sure students would be emotionally and physically stronger and would be better able to cope with 3,4 or 5 years of university.

[FlyAwayPeter]

Yes, yes yes!

Some of them might also realise how privileged they are, and not behave like spoilt children. And decompress and get some perspective.

[doublesnap]

My Ds struggles with anxiety and is a perfectionist. He's going to Bristol in September, part of me hopes that he doesn't get the grades.

[PetalMettle]

I did this - temped in admin for a year. I think it made me appreciate more my circumstances as well as being good prep for the world of work

[PetalMettle]

And I lived at home so could save money for uni

[EnormousTiger]

I hope my older 3 didn't behaved like spoilt children but I am sure some do. My younger are very mature (and laid back). Pity we can't mix some children's anxiety to dilute it with the laid backness of others. 4 of mine are pretty old in their year group although I was a year young through school and graduated at 20 and was fine so may be age isn't the issue. I do find a lot of the pressure to push themselves academically seems to come within some perfectionist children rather than being caused by parents or the school or the university but that of course therefore universities which require fairly high exam grades might then be more likely to get more of those teenagers than others. There are certainly suicides at Oxbridge too.

Anyway it's all very sad. My father was a psychatrist and so is one of my siblings. Mental illness can be some of the hardest to treat.

[Snurfle]

Some of them might also realise how privileged they are, and not behave like spoilt children. And decompress and get some perspective

Please don't tell me you just tried to minimise serious mental health issues, on a thread about student suicide, down to being 'spoilt children'.

[EnormousTiger]

I don't think she meant it like that. Some academics have to deal with teenagers who have no mental health issues but are just very difficult. It's a different world now however. I m about to shell out £150k for the twins at university over 3 years (£54k+ in fees). As a private school fee paying parent you are treated well etc etc. I am not sure all university academics have yet changed their mind set to here are my paying customers how can I please them..... this is the moment every MN posting academic pounds me into the ground of course. Yes you have a very hard hard life and parents don't understand; our children are just there to read their subject with a bit of help and the extra fees simply replaced what the state used to pay; I know.

[errorofjudgement]

Snurfle I didn't read it as minimising mental health either. More a recognition that some DC are very privileged, and time spent in a more everyday setting might help them to appreciate the good fortune that fate dealt them.
Some time and space away from academia and the pressure that students (or their parents) put themselves under, could help a student recognise that they are close to having mental health issues and that university might not be in their own best interests at this point in their lives.
And that actually, many people don't go to university, don't get overly stressed about exam results and are still perfectly decent, caring and hard working. There are other ways to get on in life, and academic or financial success is not really the best measure of what will make you happy or fulfilled. (Not that I would turn down a lottery win if my numbers came up 😊)

[FlyAwayPeter]

Exactly, error Couldn't have put it better.

[CreamCol0uredP0nies]

As the parent of children who are at the end of their secondary schooling, I have the utmost respect for theacademics who are sharing their experiences.
Serious mental health issues cannot be solved by a brisk walk in the fresh air or by kind but unsupported university tutors.
Bristol uni has never been on my radar for good or ill until reading some Mumsnet threads where quite frankly some mothers appear slightly obsessed with it. I feel desperately sorry for the students and their families who are involved in these tragic situations but as others have said, it's not restricted to this university.
One observation I have is that I wish young people could do things just for the sheer joy of it. Everyone seems to need a qualification or certificate for every last thing. I witnessed a mother in melt down because her daughter had attended a dance class after school for a year and there wasn't a certificate at the end of it! There is something seriously wrong here. Our young people should be allowed to play the guitar, watch tv, play computer games, ride their bikes, doodle on scrap paper or whatever takes their fancy for the fun of it. Instead of which every extra curricular activity is examined or channeled into D of E. There is enough pressure on them to achieve brilliance in exam results so instead of having to run, row or jump for the county, how about just letting them discover themselves without their entire self esteem being bound up in what they 'achieve'.

[FlyAwayPeter]

And i am not some huckster selling my considerable expertise by the hour to the parents of undergraduates, nor to the undergraduates. Students pay fees - or rather the taxpayer subsidises them - for the opportunity to study for a qualification. I offer the opportunity to study with an expert. It's up to the student to make the most of those opportunities.

They are not buying a degree, nor my time.

[EnormousTiger]

Good points, Cream. One of my sons would support you in all that. I don't think he does a single school thing other than attending lessons and out of school he just thinks, chats, does some sport which is more every day a bit of light bad minton which is mostly chatting or swimming which again is mostly chatting to whoever he is with. I always found as a teenager the time alone, thinking, reading, doing nothing, being bored was when I got good ideas. Long live the long summer holidays. Their older brother has set a very low (or good) bar. He's just finished one job. Needs a month doing nothing before starting to think about what to do next. Mind you such opportunities to be "slow" (the slow movement etc) tend to flow either from the tax payer supporting someone not to work or else family money feeding you so most of us instead need a balance between doing not much and getting on with life. What will be the right balance for one person will not be the same for another.