DD applying English at Cambridge 2018 any advice?

[Hollybollybingbong]

DD would like to study English at Uni and will apply in 2018. She has her heart set on Cambridge. I have been the voice of reason about the difficulty of getting there even as an excellent student and she has told me that she visualises what she wants to help her achieve it, she knows it will be hard but needs to think positively (I've received this as 'Shut up mum!'). I completely respect that. Please could anyone offer advice as to the best way to make her personal statement shine amongst all personal statements for English. She is studying English, History, Law and taking Computer science a year early in August. She has written a 60,000 word book and is discussing it with authors and sending it to publishers (so it's currently still a personal project.)
DS applied this year and was quite relaxed about where he ended up, he wasn't phased or surprised not to get an interview. I'm already more stressed about DD.

[BoboChic]

If your daughter has the opportunity, going to talks by authors where the audience is informed and engaged could provide a different forum for discussing literature and ideas that would put her school and A-level experience into perspective.

[RedHelenB]

If she gets on the Sutton trust programme for English lit that should help her with what she needs to demonstrate in her personal statement. 'My dd did UNIQ and although it was for a different subject she got a lot from it that she transferred to her uni applications.

[goodbyestranger]

LRD, on your minor point: how would you characterize the differences between the two English degrees at Oxford on the one hand and Cambridge on the other? Thanks.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Well, the prospectuses do it much better than I can, and I know the Cambridge course better than the Oxford one. Broadly, though:

Oxford

• degree in English Language and Literature
  
• can study literary periods from 650 to 2017
  
• includes history of the English Language
  
• IME, quite a strong interest in historical/cultural context.
  

Cambridge

• degree in English Literature
  
• compulsory papers start from 1300. It is possible to study earlier literature, but (sadly) this is quite unusual, and there is less focus on the history of the language.
  
• very strong interest in practical criticism/close reading.
  

The close reading bit is why I picked up (maybe unfairly) on a couple of comments on this thread as a bit too 'A-level'. The Cambridge course is designed to get you doing lots of close reading, paying precise attention to texts. To my mind, that sort of work makes it very hard to support vague generalisations about how literature in one period is all 'this' and literature later is all 'that,' and there's some overarching narrative of progress from medieval to modern.

This is a slightly separate point, but something that always bothers me is the number of students who apply for a course without reading the course spec, and are then disappointed to find they can't study what they wanted to study, or they're required to study something they hate. For example, if you detest foreign languages, it is worth checking whether or not you will spend a lot of your time reading them. If you want to study authors writing outside the British Isles, make sure that option isn't tucked away as a module for your third year and absent from the course before that.

And so on.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

OP my DD was offered a place this cycle ( though at Oxford, not Cambridge).

TBH she has not read the 'classics' extensively so didn't mention that in her PS. She did however talk about having read everything that playwrights Sarah Kane, Polly Stenham and Duncan Macmillan have writen. She's also seen lots of the plays and confirmed that she'd like to direct some of them given a chance.

She also mentioned a national poetry speaking comp she took part in ( in terms of meeting poets and discussing poetry).

It was a very different PS to the usual. But it was utterly authentic, in that nothing mentioned was done with a view to Oxbridge. This is just how DD spends her free time.

[SheepyFun]

I studied at Cambridge many years ago (not English) and my director of studies admitted (as we graduated) that when interviewing, he was looking for the best, let's say, mathematician (also not what I studied!) he can find, he really wasn't looking for a well rounded person. He also admitted to completely ignoring the personal statement, looking at grades at GCSE and predictions for A-level - that determined whether you got an interview (and most do), then your performance at interview dictated if you were offered a place. In arts/humanities the personal statement may make more difference, but it really wants to focus on why your DD wants to study English, not on sporting/musical achievements, work experience, D of E etc.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

She think most of those in admissions at Oxbridge do read the PS.

I know a couple who don't (for political reasons) but they're unusual.
When I've done admissions, I read them as I'm pathologically nosey for one thing.

However, no one should spend too long worrying about the PS. No applicant should be doing things just so they can mention it in their PS. That's a poor use of time when the PS is one (small) part of the admissions package.

More important are the grades ( obtained and predicted), the results of pre tests, any work submitted and the interview.

[OfftheCuff]

very strong interest in practical criticism/close reading

Leavis lives!

Well, certainly, that was my experience of the effect of Cambridge English, and his huge stature & sway. Ox English Lit has always been more historical/philological.

[OfftheCuff]

To my mind, that sort of work makes it very hard to support vague generalisations about how literature in one period is all 'this' and literature later is all 'that,' and there's some overarching narrative of progress from medieval to modern

Indeed. I had a wee bit of difficulty with the generalisations cited above, as well. I'm sick of essays that offer broad generalisations to determine then what a text "represents" or means or has to say. But then I was trained in close reading - start with the detail and work outwards, and realise how each text is unique, and not reducible just to representation of a broad social movement (texts do do that, but it's not all that they do).

[horsemadmom]

I think Camb. also allows you to borrow papers ? My memory of listening to DD1 agonising over which to apply to has faded somewhat.
Content at Oxford can vary depending on college. DD had read most of the reading list for fun long before applying. Her tutor has been really happy for her to read whatever interests her within the time period. She has a lot of flexibility and loves it. That may just be her tutor and her college, though.
She ultimately decided against Cambridge for two reasons. She wanted to do Old English and she wanted a more lively town. She's a club person rather than a pub person. Her friends who opted for English at Cambridge are equally happy with their choice.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

It does.

Oxford allows proper joint honours degrees, and Cambridge in theory does not, but will allow a fair bit of borrowing of papers.

You can do Old English at Cambridge, but it involves borrowing a paper from the ASNaC tripos. Not a hardship, but there isn't the heavy focus on the early stuff at Oxford. That said, if memory serves I think you can get out of compulsory Old English at Oxford these days, though there's no way around the early Middle English.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

My DD really didn't agonise over the course content and went for the place (having spent a long weekend at Cambridge for the poetry comp she knew it wasn't for her).

[Hollybollybingbong]

These responses are hugely interesting to me and giving me an insight into the depth of work DD is doing and how much of a fit she is for the course. I started the thread partly because I was aware of the existence of reading lists but couldn't find them, I was also unsure about work experience as there is none that I can think of with a direct impact on her knowledge or understanding of English Literature. DS's personal statement was easier as Cambridge and other universities have clear guidance about what would be good in it. DD won't have to change who she is or how she thinks to apply, she is already hugely passionate about the course, (if you knew her you would know she doesn't do anything just to fit a mould!) I love reading the differing opinions and experiences it's showing me how much she had to gain by reading English Literature. Sorry if I've waffled but I'm genuinely touched by all the suggestions and support you've offered.

[Allthebestnamesareused]

From info from a friend in admissions at Cambridge - candidates are not deselected for interviews on basis of PS. They are not read prior to offer of interview.

Interview appointments go out. Interviewers may or may not read the PS so that if the interview falls a bit flat there is something that the candidate feels comfortable talking about.

PS should therefore really contain super curricular rather than merely extra curricular ie. relate directly to the degree subject.

Thus OP in your case your DD should refer to her written work she is hoping to publish.

[Iusedtobedontcall]

This is interesting. I did focus on the history a lot at Oxford, so I'm viewing it from that perspective.

[SportsDHiver]

It sounds as though you are giving massive support to your DD and I wish her all the best with her application.

The only concern which I might have - and no doubt others will tell me if I am way off the mark - is her choice of A level subjects. English and History obviously perfect, but i am not sure about Law or Computer Sciences. I don't think Law is regarded as a 'facilitating subject', even for Law (my subject, but a while ago!). Did your DD discuss her choices with her school; is there any mention of A level subjects on the Oxbridge websites?

[Hollybollybingbong]

Hello Sports, we think the subjects are okay (too late if not. ) The requirements on the website are Typical offers require

A Level: A*AA
IB: 40-42points, with 776 at Higher Level

For other qualifications, see our main Entrance requirements pages.

Course requirements

Required by all Colleges: A Level/IB Higher Level English Literature (A Level/IB Higher Level English Literature and Language or English Language is/may be accepted as a substitute at some Colleges – see individual College websites for details)

. I think they'll rely heavily on the ELAT and any requested essays.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

There's various info on college websites - this is Clare, for example. www.clare.cam.ac.uk/subjectchoice-alevelchoice/

In a nutshell, there's no reason one non-facilitating subject would be a bad thing.

[Hollybollybingbong]

A quick update for anyone applying next year.
DD had a great experience at the Homerton summer school, she found the people and the place very welcoming and is certain the course is for her.
Her personal statement detailed and compared the books she loves and literary techniques to them. She didn't stick to a specific reading list, she just stuck to the books she knew she liked.
She mentioned taking her Computer Science A level in one year and the book she wrote very briefly (1 sentence each).
It must have been okay as she has just received her email for an interview at Homerton.
Thank you again everyone for all of your suggestions, I hope this thread helps people considering applying in the future as I have found Mumsnet a very supportive place to discuss the intricacies of university.