How do you think an Ivy League degree is perceived in the UK?

[user1468944854]

I've been in the UK for nearly 20 years (grew up in a different country), and now that I have kids I'm slowly getting my head around the education system here… state / private / grammar etc etc. I'm from a very academic family myself and my siblings and I all went to Ivy League universities in the US… we weren't particularly wealthy, but we all worked our butts off and got scholarships / financial aid, worked part time throughout, etc. I would love my kids to consider the Ivies or similar when college application time comes around. (Obviously I'm aware it's very competitive and expensive!!)

My question is: say they go to a top-tier US college to do their undergrad degrees and then come back to the UK to start their careers, how are employers likely to view them? Will they see them as on par with, say, the Oxbridge graduates? Higher? Lower? I have a feeling that employers might not be particularly open to Ivy League / American degrees -- that perhaps people are a little suspicious of them, but I might be imagining that.

Anyone with experience of going over to the US for college and then coming back to the UK to find work? Would love to hear thoughts.

[wigglybeezer]

Needmoresleep, personally, I have not come across anyone ( in Scotland) going to uni straight from 5th year for years and academic standards are very high at the ancient unis. If you can afford to contemplate uni in the states you can afford an extra year of living expenses in Scotland. Incidentally applying to ivy league colleges seems to be increasingly common among independent school pupils up here.

[user1468944854]

Thanks again for all input, much appreciated.

[madamginger]

Surely it depends what they want to study?
In my field US degrees are not recognised and you would need to do a years study in the uk (or EU) to convert your US degree to a UK one. This also applies to other non Eu countries not just the USA.

[lljkk]

I work in a technical field so wouldn't respect a US 1st degree.

Ha!! I fished up in UK with a mere 1st degree form USA, a BA from a R2 uni no less technically in liberal arts to my eternal shame. I had extremely in demand technical skills so turned out to be very employable. Who knew?.

Although I work in academia which might seem relevant, I don't have any experiences to comment on what it means to employers or for careers to have an Oxbridge or Ivy League or mini-Ivy League degree. It sounds like an emotional choice for OP, a bit like people who think Grammar schools are marvellous because they enjoyed their own?

[Noofly]

And in case I was going mad, looking it up, Cornell was founded in 1865 which definitely does not put it in the oldest 8 universities in the US.

[LuchiMangsho]

Harvard Yale Columbia and Princeton along with MIT and Stanford are all very very well recognised here. I have an Ivy League PhD and it made a big difference in the job market.

[Noofly]

Ermm, horsemadmum I absolutely did not say that the Ivies were subjective, and that Cornell wasn't one. I'm fully aware that it is. I said that the Ivies weren't simply the oldest unviversities in the US as you claimed, because they aren't. I said that the Little Ivies were more loosely defined- they are not a set group depending on who you speak to.

[claraschu]

My son is in his fourth year at one of the Ivies that everyone has heard of. Getting into Oxford was a piece of cake next to getting into a top US University (he got rejected from 4 out of 6 with 5 A*s and 1 A at A level and 2350 on the SAT).

The system is completely different, and what you get out of it is completely different from what you get out of an undergrad degree here. If you want to talk about it, please PM me.

[Needmoresleep]

Wiggly, Scottish degrees are four years because Scottish students often start a year earlier, when they are 17. There are few good reasons why an English student would choose to study in Scotland and pay an additional years living costs unless they were posh and wanted a Middleton like social life.

Leading American Universities in contrast demand very strong academics, and equally strong achievement in other fields. The best are hugely competitive, more competitive than Oxbridge. As I said earlier, of the kids we know looking to access American education, the generalists, or those with dual strengths, tend to go, the specialists tend to stay in the UK and make the switch at post grad level.

[horsemadmom]

Sorry, Noofly. It isn't subjective. Cornell is an Ivy. It has an Agricultural division (Ag) which is part of the SUNY system but, it is an Ivy. It isn't just a football league. They are just the oldest unis (William and Mary is the next oldest, I think).
Another correction- Wharton is the graduate business school at UPenn.
There are lots of great colleges in the US. MIT and CalTech are very specialised in STEM. Georgetown is fabulous for History and Politics. Stamford is plugged into the tech sector. NYU for arts and maths (and law and business at grad level). There are fab state options like Michigan, UNC Chappel Hill and UC Berkley and Mass Amherst .
I honestly think I have a much broader and more interesting education than DH. Not many UK grads go into a field directly linked to their degree and throughout life, a general knowledge of the world stands one in good stead.

[wigglybeezer]

You could compromise and send them to a Scottish university, four year degree, broader subject choice, joint majors. I think you can do one year at an American college if you go to St Andrew's, then Master's in the States.

[Noofly]

user Little Ivies are more loosely defined depending on who you speak to. Usually it's places like Williams, Middlebury, Amherst, Bowdoin (my alma matter!) etc. There's also other groups like the Seven Sisters which include Bryn Mawr, Smith etc.

[PhilomenaFlump]

Personally I would go for a US undergrad degree and then a masters etc in the uk. The US education is far broader and the students are exposed to a huge range of subjects. They specialise much later. For depth the UK wins but if you have a kid who isn't 100% sure what they want the US is far more flexible. Getting into a US Ivy, in my opinion, is harder because they look at the whole picture. They want extensive and interesting extracurricular activities. They want someone who has shown leadership and does volunteer work. Our DC our dual citizens US/UK and it's the way we've encouraged.

[Noofly]

When I was in high school, U Michigan was the state school Ivy applicants would apply to if they didn't think they would get enough financial aid to go to an Ivy. No idea if it's still as good, but it was very highly regarded back in the late 80s!

[user1471734618]

yes what about eg Bryn Mawr, Bennington, etc...are they Little Ivies?

[Noofly]

Cross post

[Noofly]

No, they aren't simply the oldest established universities in the US. Most of them are amongst the oldest, but I wouldn't include Cornell in that group and there are universities that are just as old as some Ivies that aren't in the group.

MIT isn't an Ivy, but it's viewed as being just as good, as is for example, Stanford.

[Needmoresleep]

The Ivy League is a football league, no more, no less. Just like the Russell Group was a meeting in a Bloomsbury Hotel.

There are lots of other very prestigeous US Universities: Stanford, MIT, Wharton, Georgetown and State Universities like UCLA. Plus Little Ivies, who offer very good Liberal Arts undergraduate Degrees. Whether an American degree gives you value added depends on what you want to do next. You would normally have a broader education than you might get in the UK, and international exposure. But are these things your employer would be looking for. (Quite possibly if you want to go on and work for an American bank, law firm or tech firm.)

[user1471734618]

I think most people would be impressed with a degree from Harvard or Yale but fewer would know the names of all them. I would be impressed by any of those (but I studied American history and lit).

[horsemadmom]

Ivy League is- Harvard, Yale, UPenn, Colombia, Princeton, Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown. They are simply the oldest established universities in the US.

[bojorojo]

Sorry - my mistake - yes it is 8. However, MIT is not one of them.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

You should do your first degree in the country you wish to live and work.

Not sensible advice for candidates able to get into Oxbridge/Ivy Leagues. There is a lot to be said for going overseas if 1) you can demonstrate that there were good reasons why you did and 2) you have considered obvious non-qualifying issues, such as doing a vocational degree that won't transfer.

[Needmoresleep]

For observation of affluent and sucessful London Americans, kids wanting to study humanities go to the States. Those wanting to specialise in science, medicine, economics etc stay in the UK, and aim to move to the States for their Masters.

The status of the College seems very important. However there are then some complaint that the level of say, calculus courses, is sub-GCSE. The big advantage is that you keep a wide reange going and there is scope to take dual majors. Maths and music, or economics and drama, to give two examples. And at good schools both are at a very high level.

Selection methods seem very different. We have heard of DC who have gained places at top ranked American Universities who would have struggled to get an interview at Oxbridge/Imperial and vice versa.

DS would like to do some postgrad in the States (economics). It is hugely competitive. Top British Universities seem more accessible.

[OrlandaFuriosa]

I'm inclined to agree with Appalachian. But it also depends in what subjects. If you emerged from MIT with a v specialist degree I'd prob take you like a shot for numeracy related jobs, but I would too if you came from Trinity Cambridge or imperial. I'm not sure I'd feel the same about Smith or Brown.

[Leeds2]

Just dropped off my DD for orientation in the US. We like the breadth of education it offers, e.g. she has to study maths, a language, social science, science, a humanity etc. But that suits my DD as she is an all rounder. If she had a particular interest in Chemistry, Maths, History etc I would've pointed her to UK institutions.

I have no idea how this will be viewed in the job market. Have plenty of friends who work in London who say that they would be impressed by someone going to a uni outside the UK (wherever that was) but no idea yet as to whether that translates into actual job offers.