Bath, not a Russell group uni, is this a problem for employers?

[tropicalfish]

Hi,
DD has an offer for biochemistry at Bath but is probably going to find a job outside the science sector once she graduates, probably in a well paid City/tech job. She feels that alot of employers, or rather people in charge of recruiting for their department are biased towards recruiting from Russell groups and hence going to Bath would place her at a disadvantage. This is probably due to the significant competition for jobs. What has been the experience of people on the forum with respect to Russell and non Russell Group universities? I'm certainly not saying that Bath is not a great university, just that people show bias towards Russell group graduates.
Many thanks,
TF

[Oldie2017]

My daughter did BSc geog with mostly science A levels. Definitely pick the course you like. In career terms the institution does matter and one that requires AAB is probably better than BBC.

[TheMightyMing]

Human geography is quite different to standard geography, I understand it to have elements of economics /politics /socio legal type content. So quite applicable to a number of employment paths. DS wasnt at all interested in the science and physical side.

[BubblesBuddy]

You are correct, it is Manchester University and AAB is the standard offer for that course whilst Sheffield Hallam want BBC for Geography.

[BubblesBuddy]

Most employers won't care too much about the content of a geography course unless it is very work related. There are huge numbers of geography graduates so course contents matter more to the students than employers.

[Forester78]

Bath is fab, and what a great place to study.

[TheMightyMing]

Bubbles they do fashion management at MU. In terns of ranking Hallam isn't the highest ranking uni by a long chalk but DS was keen to be in Sheffield and at the end of the day it was his choice . Just hope it's a good course, I've told him to get his head down and work hard.

[BubblesBuddy]

The fashion courses are at Manchester Metroplitan, not Manchester University when we looked at them. How highly does Sheffield Hallam rank for Geography? Sometimes "academic" degrees that the world and his wife offers with mid grade A level offers, are not as well respected as niche degrees where graduates have industry links via the university. Doing a degree in fashion, which is a major industry in this country, can be a more useful degree than Geography and does require a different skill set. Maybe the fashion undergrads knew what they were doing?

[Oldie2017]

It's fine if we have different views. Let their children go to the places certain employers do not so often recruit from. It's not an issue.

However I do hope parents and teenagers know which universities are more likely than others to help particular careers. (By the way no one on here is saying Bath is not good).

i am not sure what the point is about "advanced research". Oxbridge does some pretty good research. I do a lot of intellectual property work so do work as a lawyer with scientists and some who become businesspeople too. I don't think any of them are hindered by going to the better universities.

No one is saying family effort, genes, looks and mnoey and the full raft of stuff we give our children which advantages them over others or doesn't, is irrelevant of course but you improve your own odds in life by picking a better university.

[user7214743615]

BTW my Oxbridge class is now spread throughout the world, in the top universities such as Harvard, Stanford, Princeton etc. Click on any top research group and you will find lots of people with Oxbridge undergraduate degrees i.e. lots of evidence that Oxbridge graduates are immensely successful in the world of research.

[user7214743615]

If you look at research groups in the same subjects at the same universities, you won't find many oxbridge graduates taken on for advanced sciences, maths, engineering, economics, etc etc as when academic ability becomes genuinely professional, students from lower ranked UK universities, European universities, US universities are preferred.

Evidence? Data?

Because I believe that you do know you are writing rubbish and that the evidence shows exactly the opposite effect.

[scaryclown]

Er an article saying what I said, but a bit later actually than the managerial change happened. He was appointed, according to that article, to install Japanese management.. Who ran the plant before then and how?

He's not from oxbridge either..

[boys3]

When Japanese managers took over from public school - oxbridge management at Nissan using the sane British workers productivity exceeded that of other factories globally

Oddly clown Nissan have a different version of events

nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan-heritage-nissan-heritage-nissan-legends/releases/nissan-legend-sir-ian-gibson-an-englishman-who-served-as-a-bridge-between-japan-and-europe?mode=print

Ian Gibson is a graduate of Manchester University

[scaryclown]

No issues, just logic.
If you look at research groups in the same subjects at the same universities, you won't find many oxbridge graduates taken on for advanced sciences, maths, engineering, economics, etc etc as when academic ability becomes genuinely professional, students from lower ranked UK universities, European universities, US universities are preferred.

[mayfly66]

Oldie: I don't think an appeal to logic (or fact) is likely to gain much traction with Scary who clearly has "isshoos" with the social bias exercised in our better universities and employers...

[scaryclown]

Re Beckham though, if his kids are crap at football, he'll be able to pay for expensive training and give them access to the industry that few would have, and he could also get his kids to oxbridge far more easily than many of us, irrespective of their abilities. They would then be thousands of times more likely to get a graduate role in management, irrespective of their aptitude.

[scaryclown]

Not at all. Public school kids tend to have weather parents by definition, Oxbridge has wealthier parents by definition. Wealth is a much better prediction of success, including earlier filtering into management positions. Added to that is the recruitment direct to management streams and the large companies you mention focus nearly all their graduate recruitment effort on the top 10 unis, and within that moreso on oxbridge. They don't even consider the very bright outside these filters. This is before the clear networking advantages of a management layer recruited from a small pool who know each other. Other initiatives that exclude 'lower ranked' unis compound this Eg the bright network.. Itself sponsored by the same top employers.

On top of all this, the financial wherewithal to maintain one's standard of living whilst taking unpaid internships or wait for a graduate role expands this bias.

There is very little consideration of aptitude through these processes because its mistakenly assumed.

[Oldie2017]

This is all making me laugh. On average Oxbridge (which is more from state schools than private by the way) students are brighter than most other places. I didn't go there. I was am pretty bright. I am no less bright than my siblings but that doesn't mean I cannot acecpt the truth that on the whole people there are more academic and better at exams than those at places which require lower grades.

As for what you need for a career after it depends on the career. Oxbridge will help in a quite a few higher paid careers but my daughter's done fine after Bristol.

I don't think anyone is saying wealth equals ability although it can - Beckham is good at football, better than I am and made more at that than many. Some people are not interested in money like my Ocado driver graduate son or monks and nuns and the like. Some money is indeed inherited but as most immigrants and many native born people know if you start out high as it were - good exam results, good career choice in a high paid area, good university then it is definitely easier to make more money.

[user7214743615]

Oxbridge (UG) isn't full of very bright people.

Remarkable how many of them go on to become world leaders in fields requiring high intelligence (academia etc) given that they aren't very bright.

[mayfly66]

Plenty of sweeping generalisations and not a little prejudice there too, Scary.

Have you got chips on just one or both shoulders...?!

[scaryclown]

I have net some very thick people with As in the humanities, and the rabid blindness to the University recruitment game, the thinking shortcuts that assume wealth equals ability and the misunderstanding of the biases that inherently distort the outcomes are perfect examples of the denseness that is endemic in the UK education system and manifests in the inefficient and notoriously unproductive British management model.
When Japanese managers took over from public school - oxbridge management at Nissan using the sane British workers productivity exceeded that of other factories globally. There are myriad other examples..

[scaryclown]

Ffs Oxbridge (UG) isn't full of very bright people, it's 50% full of people who got As at private schools.. So either private schools add no value, but just have genetically bright kids, or they do add value, but the kids aren't any brighter than any other cohort.

God why are people so dim.

[scaryclown]

Er
'Write in correct English'

Write, 'English'.. Means just writing 'English'

Hth brain box..

[TheMightyMing]

DS went to highly selective grammar in NW , and got brilliant GCSE results , but frankly v average A level results, way below expectation and missed out on first choice and insurance as a result (both RG), he wants to do Geography). A good friends daughter missed out in Leeds and was throwing her toys out because the options she had were non RG. She has ended up at Man Uni, the course is fashion management . Similarly my niece is doing a v random course at MU.

I'm hoping that a degree in an academic subject from a less than stellar non RG uni will be valued by employers ( Sheffield Hallam by the way ) .

Bath is highly regarded , my DS girlfriend attained v high uni grades and specifically targeted Bath only as the languages option she wanted wasn't really offered elsewhere.

[Oldie2017]

It's often the opposite with Oxbridge though isn't it? You will feel worse than most people there as most are very bright; whereas I was top of my year at non Oxbridge so perhaps more likely to think I am the best than my Oxbridge siblings. More realistically most people have a fair idea of how they are compared with others and real life soon makes that clear to most of us.

[BubblesBuddy]

Perhaps they could write English though scary!