Manchester or UCL?

[BaconAndAvocado]

DS1 has decided he wants to put down Manchester as his firm and UCL as insurance for MEng.

I'm a little shocked as I was under the impression that UCL is a highly prestigious Uni, one to open doors in the future?

He said he's gone with Manchester because they have a year in industry and he prefers the department.

Does anyone know anything about Manchester Uni or the MENg course?

Thanks........stress levels are running high and he hasn't even taken his exams yet

[TheMightyMing]

I'm from Manchester and have lived here all my life, I didn't go to uni though. I can tell you that the Manchester student life is great, I frequented many of the pubs and clubs as a youngster. The student area is relatively compact and safe for a big city, cheap to get around etc etc.

[bojorojo]

DD2 is an undergrad in London. I agree undergrads travel all over the place in London. That was my point. Some students just don't want that. They like their entertainment handy. On her course the overseas students are 40% and lots of the others do live at home but quite a few have a slightly older age profile and are settled.

On DD1s course, it is way more expensive to do it in London so it is not particularly attractive to people from other cities where the course is available. They can save £5,000 by doing it elsewhere. Even so, people are commuting from Cambridge, Kent, Sussex etc to do the London based courses. I know this is not typical but, as you can see from your old school destinations, whatwouldrondo, people are choosing local universities more and more. People can be very risk averse and there often young people are not discerning about the university they attend. I think some local employers support the local universities so the students do get jobs. This is seen as beneficial to a risk averse student who does not want to move away. People choose to go to a university with people like them. This was starkly obvious on offer days when DDs met other students at two northern universities.

Basically, students end up going to the university and City that ticks most boxes for them. But they all have different labels on the boxes!

[Eustace2016]

I went to Manchester University. I don't think it is worse than UCL. UCL does take a lot of London students (we live in London) where the family for cultural reasons doesn't want the children leaving home (plenty of boys in my sons' school) and London does have some of the higher paid jobs generallly so never a bad idea to be in London but Manchester is good.

Also look at the offers - Manchester has a higher requirement so that probably shows is better than UCL in terms of the offers made to him.

[RockyRoadster]

I was a bit slow there!

[RockyRoadster]

You can read all about the history on this university webpage:

www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/history-heritage/history/victoria/

I hope that link works

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Ignore me. Have googled and I'm up to speed

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Really? What/where was Victoria University?

[RockyRoadster]

UMIST no longer exists. It merged with Victoria University to become the University of Manchester.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I think Manchester has a fabulous student life. If we weren't local it would be top of my list for DD.

Will it be UMIST? That has a great reputation.

[whatwouldrondo]

bojo as I understand it your DD is doing a Masters, on my recent London Masters too, most students were living at home. Most were funding it themselves, no loans, no bursaries, so it was a means to an end and they had had a taste of independence anyway.

At undergraduate level that is not so true, since most undergrads want a taste of independence. A lot of undergrads are from the greater London area because they realise that they still want the big city, and would find it limited and a bit homogenous elsewhere, but most still want independence. I knew of none living at home on the undergrad level of my course at another London uni you mention nor did my DD's and her peers at UCL. Of course as at any uni there will be undergrads who do chose a local university because for various reasons they want to be at home, and that may mean they are not predisposed, let alone facilitated to mix much socially but I am sure all our universities are large enough for there to be plenty of students who do. I was shocked when I saw the leavers destinations for my old selective school far away from London that so many were going to the local not especially highly ranked uni.

The diversity I referred to was the student body as a whole though, and not just the London area students. A lot of private school pupils do prefer the traditional enclaves like Bristol and Nottingham, to name the universities most popular at my DDs' private school , so the student body tends to be more of a mixed crowd who are seeking something different, from all sorts of different backgrounds.

There are more overseas students, London is their main aspiration but at around 30% at UCL they are certainly not in the majority and my DD appreciated the cultural diversity she was able to experience. A lot of the top unis have a high proportion of overseas students, 22% at Manchester, 25% at Warwick, 22% at Bath but it rarely gets mentioned in reviews of those unversities

Socially my DD and her peers partied far and wide, the east end is the current focus of most student social lives though they went south of the river too. They also partied with students from the other London unis, despite the obvious rivalries, networks do build up. The night bus network is extensive and these days a shared uber can actually work out cheaper. Actually in the holidays even being here on the outskirts of London is no barrier to going up to and home from town and even the Royal Holloway students out in the wilds of Egham join in getting home on the first train.

[rightsaidfrederickII]

You really have nothing to worry about with him going to Manchester. It's a fantastic uni, and in fact the birthplace of chemical engineering is the university - the first chemical engineer worked there and taught the first chemical engineering course there.

The work placement will do wonders for his employability - it will give him the experience that graduate employers want to see, and it's common for placement students to get a graduate job at the same company. Compare and contrast the employability stats...
unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007798FT-200/ReturnTo/Search
unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007784FT-UMNCENSING14/ReturnTo/Search

As for the distance from home, it's only two hours on the train from Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, plus however long it takes to get to Kent - perfectly doable for a weekend. Invariably students who are well settled and happy at university go home less frequently than those who are struggling to settle, so not coming home very often is actually a good sign in many ways, even though you may miss him! When I was a student, I enjoyed university so much that I used to dread the holidays(!). Holidays add up to about 5 months of the year, so you'll still be seeing a fair bit of him regardless of where he goes.

[BaconAndAvocado]

Rose teehee DS did tell me about the lecturer/porn star but, no, surprisingly that wasn't what swayed his decision

Househunting to still be in your Uni town 10 years later is a great reference!

The only possible disadvantage to him going to Manchester is the distance as we live in East Kent. That said, DH seems to think DS won't be wanting to come home too often.........

[houseHuntinginmanchester]

Can I just add my personal experiences; manchester student life is the best! I have also been to UCL for a year and it did not match my experience in Manchester in any way whatsoever!
Ten years after graduation and I am now settled here raising two mini mancunians

[bojorojo]

So that's why students choose Chemical Engineering at Manchester! The best university for gossip! I bet his timekeeping was spot on!

[titchy]

He's left now....

[Roseformeplease]

Is this news item why he has made that choice?

A professor is being investigated by bosses at Manchester university after his secret life as a PORN STAR was revealed.
Nicholas Goddard, a respected chemical engineering lecturer at The University of Manchester, has been living a double life as an adult film actor.
Millions have watched him as ‘Old Nick’ in scores of porn movies alongside his duties as a professor.
But the divorced father-of-three, whose academic career spans almost 35 years, says he has quit the X-rated film industry after a decade.

STEVE ALLEN

Professor Nicholas Goddard

Oxford-educated Prof Goddard, 61, is believed to have started his second career following a divorce.
His family were apparently unaware of his other job, which involved him having sex with dozens of women - often wearing only a gold watch.
When approached by the M.E.N. at his home, minutes away from the university’s Oxford Road campus, Prof Goddard declined to comment but confirmed he is awaiting a decision about his future from university chiefs who have been carrying out an internal investigation.
Prof Goddard appears in a number of videos on the university’s website - and has published scores of scientific papers during







He is the lead tutor on three courses, having taught chemical engineering for nearly 25 years.
He said he didn’t get paid much during his stint as an adult movie star, but did get travel expenses.
A University spokeswoman said: “We can confirm that we know about it and that he is a member of staff but we’re not making any further comment.”

[BaconAndAvocado]

Thanks all.

Yep, DS is still adamant Manchester is his "firm" choice. He knows his stuff and I guess I have to take a step back and trust him to make the decisions that are right for him.

I think that's called.......letting go

[bojorojo]

The reason why there is diversity in London's universities is because the population of London is diverse. Lots of students live at home. Loads at my DD's university. There has also been a big push to improve comprehensive schools in London and to link them to universities. These pupils come from a huge variety of backgrounds (many of them from abroad) and this is why the London universities are diverse. They also attract very many overseas based students and although many have studied here for the last few years, they only want London. It is a huge magnet. Imperial, UCL, LSE and SOAS are very popular with overseas students.

I think one of the issues with London is that from the second year students can be be spread out - in zones 2 or 3 for example. It causes travel problems for parties (unless you are on a nightbus route) and students can live in smallish bubble. Also sports clubs and socieities are quite a trek from the suburbs. Commuting is part of London life but not everyone wants it or likes it. Sometimes a 10 minute walk to university and everything you need is wonderful!

In the OP's case, her DS was planning to live with his Dad in SW London. Therefore his bubble could be very small.

Lots of Engineering students find the courses are full-on and working or commuting long distances is not helpful. Holiday work is, of course, fine and this is what quite a lot of people will do. My DD is in London and it is not cheap, even in Campden etc when compared to other university cities like Manchester or Nottingham. Also, this is not the only concern. My DD has friends all over London. They are not living as a student body in a university area of the city. This is much more the case in Bristol, Leeds, Manchester. I know a lot of students do not mind average accommodation. My DDs boarded and are hardy. It is often private schools pupils who opt for the worst accommodation! You would be surprised how many young people expect a private bathroom and all mod cons. They definitely do not want to share a room. In London this costs and lots of students have intention of "roughing it'. They want to feel like they have the facilities and comfort of home. That is why so many new blocks are being developed and lots of older ones are refurbished.

[whatwouldrondo]

And even London students on courses regarded as having heavier workloads than engineering, architects and Natural Sciences do dip into the casual job market when they get spare time. Whereas my DDs flat mate on an engineering course in another town who does not get help from his parents is working every spare hour in low paid waite ing work, and considering an hour plus commute in his final year to reduce his costs. I am sure it will affect his academic work.

And actually albert it would and does get you a room in a shared house in zone 2/3, lots of pockets of student accommodation for UCL students in Mornngton Cresent, Camden, Holloway, or if they want more space, further out on Finchley Road or Southgate, or if they are would be hipsters Hoxton and eastwards.

However this is not helping Op whose son prefers the Manchester course so it is a no brainer

[whatwouldrondo]

Dimots and Greaves If you look at my earlier post I was arguing for cities like Manchester for OPs son because the traditional hierarchy does not apply in Engineering. However in many subjects, both Science and Humanities, it does and there is a general perception expressed in some of these Mumsnet threads that London unis are only for the well off which is a pity because in my experience it is simply not true and might put off students from applying to the course and student experience which would in fact be best for them. In fact the London university's student bodies are more diverse socially than you would find at traditional private school haunts like Exeter, Bristol and Nottingham? As I say students should base their decision on the actual experience of students, not parent perceptions.

[dimots]

About cost, pt jobs may be more plentiful in London, but engineering students tend to have more hours of contact time plus a heavier workload than many other courses. A job in term time may be detrimental to his studies. Many engineering students also take unpaid internships during the longer holidays as well.

[GeorgeTheThird]

There's plentiful casual and part time work in other big cities such as Manchester too.

[JimmyGreavesMoustache]

15 years ago I was at MCR with 6 lads who were on the Chem Eng sandwich course
5/6 went on to excellent, highly paid jobs in industry
the other one went to do a PhD at Harvard
so certainly in those olden days that particular course appeared to be well rated by employers

[albertcampionscat]

Both great universities. It is a lot easier to live cheaply and still have fun in Manchester, though, so that might swing it for me. I live in a very unglamorous bit of zone 2 /3 and £650 pcm would't get you a room round here.

Good luck!

[whatwouldrondo]

My main point Katy is that the London universities are not just for the well off, there is help for students whose parents have lower incomes, and plentiful casual / part time work and many who do not have access to parental help do have a good experience in London. If you do not have access to parental help accommodation costs are an issue wherever you go but perhaps without the opportunities to find the extra funds.