Universities and Steiner Education

[onadifferentplanet]

I know there are several people who work in Universities on these threads and wonder if you can give me any information on your views of students with the International Steiner Certificates. I know this is relatively new qualification in the UK but Ds will be amongst the first students from his school to apply to Uni next year whilst working through Level 3. We are beginning to look into where he might go and indeed where might be willing to consider him . Do any of you have any experience of this.

[MarvinKMooney]

Totally agreed slightly. International foundation certs and dips are further examples as the syllabus is not the same for any two institutions. We ask for a maths qual and - unless we're looking at an A level in Maths - we regularly ask for more information. It's just what we do.

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

TBH there are lots of qualification routes that have to be individually verified for the applicant as admission depends on the specific content, so the first step should be to contact the admissions team to ask. For example BTECs are very variable and many STEM courses will only accept specific ones for that reason, so you need to check. Overseas qualifications are similarly reviewed unless they come up regularly in applications to that institution.

[EnormousTiger]

The USA may be a more fruitful ground. It is hard enough getting into good universities in the Uk with As in A levels as it is..... Also do be aware for some jobs later they want UCAS points totted up and still look at A level grades and subjects as a gold standard in assessing for the better paid jobs in most firms, (not all - PWC tried applications without a level grades and university institution appearing as an experiment recently).

[MarvinKMooney]

I'm sure it will become easier as knowledge of the qual gets out there. Not everyone does straight a levels: there are all sorts of different UK combinations, not to mention the plethora of EU and overseas quals.

I have to say, Norwich Steiner School was incredibly helpful when I contacted it. The school was happy to provide details of the syllabus, learning outcomes, etc. Made my job a lot easier!

(Btw, I'm in the sciences in a northern RG university)

[onadifferentplanet]

Thank you Marvin, I have no idea if your University is one of the ones ds applied to or if it was one of the others in his class but I do appreciate that you as several others did find the time to look further into things . I realise it was above and beyond but am glad it piqued your interest enough. I do hope that should he or one of his class to end up at your University later this year your faith in them is rewarded. I rather think it will be.
The UCAS process was new both to the school and the pupils this year but I am sure in future years this will become a simpler process for all concerned.

[MarvinKMooney]

Interesting thread. I work in university admissions within a department. I came across the Steiner school cert for the first time this cycle.

To reassure, we didn't dismiss it outright but did do some research to ascertain that the areas studied met the requirements of our courses. I contacted the school (Norwich!) to find out more and to get an insight into A level grade equivalences.

So, it can be done. I agree with a pp upthread that admissions teams can be too maxed out to go to these lengths. Do take the advice of getting a NARIC statement as this would help us enormously. When I looked, however, the cert wasn't listed on its website but this will probably change. In any case, I was intrigued and wanted to find out more! (And we read every single personal statement, btw. Just sayin' )

[user1488581876]

onadifferentplanet

It would be very helpful if you listed the universities that have accepted International Steiner Certificates.

[onadifferentplanet]

I don't think that would be fair on my ds, however the majority of offers he and his classmates have received are from RG and other Universities within the top 20.

[user1488581876]

onadifferentplanet

As a matter of interest, which universities did he receive offers from?

[voilets]

What great news . Glad to hear high achieving unis are open to education and am glad steiner now have a measurable qualifcation.

We were interested in steiner but sadly was not right for our child. Actually steiner were prejudiced. He did brilliantly in local state schools after a few early years hiccups. Now doing very well at a good RG course.

Good luck to your DS

[quietlycrazy]

onadifferentplanet thanks for the update. I agree that Steiner and other alternative schools are too quickly dismissed. DD2 attended a Steiner school for years 7-9 and I would have kept her there forever if I could have. It's impossible to compare one Steiner school to another because they can be very different; but what I think they have in common is valuing the whole child, helping students see the links between different disciplines, respecting others and the environment, finding some beauty in the world, and not obsessing about grades. Despite the unconventional approach, when DD and her classmates moved into mainstream education they were ahead in maths, science and language skills (as well as music and art). None of them came from privileged backgrounds (we live abroad and fees were very low, and often subsidized). And I think the lateral thinking skills that a Steiner education cultivates will serve them well through university and beyond.

[lljkk]

some public figure was on radio the other day (sorry I can't remember who) was saying he was at Steiner school from yr9 thru end of A-levels. He made it sound like he got regular GCSEs & A-levels, while attending the Steiner school.

[noo1985]

It just shows doesn't it that people should never judge a book by its cover!! Just because what you read in the papers about Steiner doesn't mean that it is true! Surely open mindedness is always the way forward. If I had enough money I would love to send my 3 DC to a Steiner school they give such a rounded form of education in ways that people just don't seem to see. I think it is wrong that people judge a school system that is now proving to create successful well educated pupils just because they don't fully understand the way they teach, maybe if these people actually looked into how they teach they would see that the system might not be everyone's cup of tea but it works well for others. You must be so proud of your DS and what he has achieved and what Steiner have done for him I send a massive congratulations!

[onadifferentplanet]

I wasn't sure if I should revisit this thread but thought some of you might like an update. Ds emailed the Universities he was interested in and with one exception all said they would consider his application , some asked for more information but quite a few said they were already aware of it and what grades they would be looking for.
Ds now has offers from all his choices, where comparable A level grades would be 3As. They all seem happy that what he is learning is on a par with the A level syllabus too.
I am exceedingly proud of what he's achieved particularly when faced with the attitudes and negativity of so many and I am very grateful that the Uni admissions people who received his application were willing to take the time and trouble to give his applications consideration rather than writing him off at the mention of Steiner like so many on MN seem to do.

[lljkk]

It would be unfair to non-Steiner kids if the Steiner Certificate wasn't evaluated rigorously in comparison to the very common qualifications (eg A-levels).

In defence of Steiner (can't believe I'm saying this), D-friend went thru Steiner schools. She has LDs and feels that Steiner was brilliant for her because she could never be academic. She's late 30s now, has a responsible conventional job, very functional person. So the path was fine for her.

[whattheseithakasmean]

The school also believes that offering ‘off-the-shelf’ qualifications is not necessarily the best way to help young adolescents develop into balanced, capable and innovative young adults

So how the diddly do are they expected to get a decent job & earn an honest crust if they leave school with no recognised qualifications? Sounds like a huge disadvantage to me - especially as you have paid for the privilege of your child having no means to earn a decent living as an adult - it sounds like education for the independently wealthy, to be honest.

OP - perhaps the best bet would be your local FE college, they are all about second chances to learn for people who leave school without any qualifications and a great opportunity to study & learn with a wide range of ages and backgrounds (my DH does a bit of lecturing in an FE College & it all sounds pretty inspiring, as everyone there really wants to learn, for a vast range of reasons).

[mathanxiety]

Whatthese, Steiner schools look down their noses at conventional education and believe mainstream standards are irrelevant because the role and raison d'etre of Steiner is spiritual transformation of the child, not being educated in a 'larger sense'. Imo it is Steiner schools that should take responsibility for ensuring Steiner education does not adversely affect students' chances of realising their ambitions but as the Norwich school website makes clear, this is not what they are about. They do not say specifically what they are about, just what they are not about. So you get parents like the OP who are faced with a problem quite late in the day.

"Prior to Steiner School Certificate being developed, the school did not offer any formal qualifications. This is because there were no suitable qualifications available which appropriately reflect the Steiner-Waldorf curriculum [i.e. spiritual development]. The school also believes that offering ‘off-the-shelf’ qualifications is not necessarily the best way to help young adolescents develop into balanced, capable and innovative young adults" [so good luck, students who wish to go to university].

[Needmoresleep]

Ron, DD took a school based qualification, "world perspectives" which was supposed to provide students with a broader base. Essentially it was a timetabled course over two years, with a term for each of things like economics, history, geography and more, and exams at the end of each topic. It meant that students did not give up the full range of humanities simply because they were no longer taking all these subjects for GCSE. They also had to do some quite challenging things like research and then a power point presentation. It was accepted by UCAS and was on their drop down list of qualifications. However it was not accepted by Nottingham University who do not accept "school based" qualifications. Pity because DD was one point short of the points needed to be considered for an interview.

I'm glad DD did it. Education should be more than passing exams. The moral though is to check with Universities first before offering non-standard qualifications. I assume Steiner pupils are not the only ones facing this problem. Indeed it must be sufficiently common for the LSE to adopt the following approach:

" The UG Admissions Assessment (formerly known as the Entrance Exam) is used in order to fairly assess those applicants from non-traditional educational backgrounds, such as those following Access or Foundation courses, or those whose qualifications are not as rigorous or well known as others.

The UG Admissions Assessment (UGAA) test gives the Admissions Tutor the opportunity to see a sample of the applicant's original work, produced under examination conditions, and seeks to assess applicants from a variety of backgrounds in a fair and equitable manner."

[whatwouldrondo]

The problem is that answering A level questions is about providing the answers the examiner wants to see, not testing being educated in the larger sense which I assume is the aim of a Steiner education. My DCs school was pragmatic about it, it did it's best to provide an education around it and were frank that they would rather do more of it but they had to teach to the exam in order to give their pupils the best chance of achieving their ambitions , in most cases a place at university.

It is why many schools like Winchester, Island School etc are offering alternatives that give them that opportunity but they have responsibly communicated with universities to ensure their pupils chances are not affected. It is clear universities too would almost certainly in an ideal world welcome pupils who have received that sort of wider education but it is a system that has to deal with a very high volume of applications. It is frankly a fairly disinterested clerk crunching numbers , on achieved and predicted grades, few personal statements get read even. A levels are what everyone is stuck with to a large degree, all very well putting principles before pragmatism and sitting on a high horse but it seems unfair on the pupils taking this qualification if nobody is stepping up to the responsibility for ensuring it does not adversely affect their chances of realising their ambition.

[whattheseithakasmean]

Steiner Schools are private schools, right? If I was paying for private education, I would expect the school to get the qualification equivalence sorted as part of their service (disclaimer, my kids went to the local comp, but I thought the whole point about private ed was being treated like a 'customer' & getting the service you wanted).

[mathanxiety]

'Further information' means they have not encountered the Level 3 before. It also means they probably haven't encountered many Steiner students before. I would not see this as positive.

He will need feedback from a teacher in a mainstream sixth form on his answers to essay-type papers, and tbh I would also seek out science and maths teacher feedback too.

[OddBoots]

I seem to remember a lot of problems with the Cambridge Pre U being accepted by Universities for the first year or two of it. If there are problems it may not be specifically because of the connotations of Steiner as much as it being largely unfamiliar.

[G1raffe]

A levels will also be useful currency if doing a graduate scheme etc.

[CrowyMcCrowFace]

I would maybe look into sitting a levels independently, then?

Or at least attempt a couple of past papers & get feedback from an a level teacher. As G1raffe says, he may not quite grasp the level of response required.

If anyone's emailing universities to ask if they accept an unconventional qualification, I think it should be the candidate himself. Not his mum!

Good idea to test the waters by asking, though. If response is negative he can then start thinking about a levels.

[G1raffe]

IF A level papers don't look daunting maybe he could do an extra year and sit them at a 6th form college or similar? Sometimes the essy questions look deceptively easy but require depth but if its maths he should be aware if he could answer them or not.