As the username suggests, Bristol or Newcastle uni?

[BristolvsNewcastle]

I've namechanged for this so I can be completely candid without having it all linked to my usual name, but you might recognise some of the details and that's fine :)

DD has offers from Bristol and Newcastle to do MFL - French, Spanish and German. She's doing French and Spanish A levels, predicted A* in both (just got great marks in her mocks), and German will be ab initio.

She's gone through the details of many courses at many universities, and likes the (almost identical) structure of the courses at B and N. She wants to be in a city, not an out of town campus. Newcastle is at least 4 times as far away as Bristol - Bristol is "pop home for an afternoon if you need to", Newcastle is either a very expensive or very slow journey. Newcastle is a lot cheaper to live in.

Bristol offer is AAB, Newcastle offer is ABB, going to unconditional if she firms them. Plus they will give her 1K if she hits her original offer and 2K if she gets AAA (which she is very much planning to!). Looks like there are about 250 people in each year across the range of MFLs at Bristol, about 130 at Newcastle. Newcastle have possibly a wider range of university links for the year abroad.

Bristol has a certain reputation that Newcastle doesn't seem to - when she talks to people about her choice, the general reaction is "oh well, Bristol then". But in fact looking at league tables and the REF, Newcastle actually beats Bristol in most respects.

Her heart says Newcastle - she really liked it there. But she liked Bristol too (more than she expected to given how strongly she had felt about Newcastle!) and she is wondering whether her head should be saying Bristol, mostly based on that reputation, I think!

Any further insight to help break the stalemate would be gratefully received

[BristolvsNewcastle]

Newcastle never exceeds Bristol ever on anything - annoyingly for you DG, we've done the research and that's just not true! Have a look at the latest REF for example.

The difference in offers is only one grade, and I think it reflects the north-south divide more than anything else. Dd said there were a lot more northerners at the Newcastle offer day - I think distance is quite a factor for a lot of prospective students. (My older dd was deciding between Bristol and Leeds for her insurance - she went with Leeds in the end, as her only reservation was the distance. I think my daughters like the northern vibe!)

Offers for mfl aren't particularly demanding anywhere (except Cambridge, which got crossed off her list fairly late as she decided she really wanted to start German). At the Bristol open day, in the talk they said that Bristol was "still, just about, selecting rather than recruiting". I'd like her to be with peers who will encourage and challenge her, of course - it might be that everyone at Bristol has got As and A*s, and everyone at Newcastle has scraped in by getting their ABB offer or even BBB, but it doesn't seem to be the case really. I suggested she surveyed those she met at offer days to find out their predicted grades, but she didn't fancy that

[DeoGratias]

Go off to Newcastle - less competition for my lot for Bristol . Let me encourage the Newcastle route but don't be deluded - whatever you look up, Bristol rules.

Remember it's what is on your CV for life and future careers which is really the only thing that matters and she will get a lot further with Bristol than Newcastle.

[BristolvsNewcastle]

Ffs, why you are so horrible Deo ?Everyone else in this section is generally helpful and supportive, but you're always a cow. It doesn't make your advice sound any more appealing!

[Error404usernamenotfound]

Blimey Deo

I am a current Bristol student (not MFL, but in Humanities so around MFL students a lot), and I love it. Yes, there is a reputation for it's being full of rich kids, and tbh there are a lot of students here from the posh bits of the Home Counties, but there are also a lot who aren't, and I have encountered not one iota of snobbery.

I actually chose it as I'm a mature student so couldn't relocate, but I think I've landed on my feet! I know nothing about Newcastle though, sorry. It's not easy to weigh up reputation and therefore slightly increased employability against expected actual university experience, given that she will be spending three very intensive years there, plus the year abroad (and there the links are obviously extremely important). She needs to love being there or she won't do as well as she could.

Is there any chance of doing a post-offer open-day, or booking a visit to both to see if it cements her decision?

[1234Littleham]

I think she should go where she thinks she will be happiest -whether it is Newcastle or Bristol.

Totally agree with Error about Bristol. My dd's comp had the normal range of Mean Girl groups and she says it is such a relief to be at a place where everyone is nice to you.

[BristolvsNewcastle]

Is there any chance of doing a post-offer open-day, or booking a visit to both to see if it cements her decision?

She's been back to both for offer holders' visits in the last 3 weeks! Didn't really help, lol! Did show her that Newcastle is doable in a day, as last time she went with dh by car as part of a weekend away. (I didn't get as good a deal as eatyourveg though )

Littleham I'm sure she'd be happy at both, they both seem like great places. Which is the problem! I know Bristol a bit and really like it there, and have been trying to steer her towards Bristol for the sake of nearness, but she had such an immediate 'click' with Newcastle that I think that's going to be where she ends up.

[bojorojo]

Bristol will be more challenging because so many from there are wanting to apply for top graduate recruitment schemes and the recruiters all recognise a Bristol graduate. That is why Bristol is popular.

Newcastle is favoured by the drinkers from the southern public schools - it's the fun university. Nothing to do with rubbing shoulders with Geordies or widening their friendship base to include northerners! I don't see why this is a particular advantage anyway. No more than meeting people from Brizzle.

Employers think Bristol is recruiting. Although few universities do for MFL and no-one really cares. There are not enough top grades to go round. I'm surprised your DD didn't go for Oxbridge OP. You can look at the average points score per graduate if you want to know where the best end up. Also, no-one is just friends with people on their course. The students make friends with people on all sorts of degrees and tends to include people around them in halls. My DD found Bristol had a lot of native speakers and dual nationalities on her courses and this gave them a massive advantage in some aspects of the degree.

As for asking for people's predicted grades!!!! How to make friends in an instant! No. You cannot do this.

[Ready123]

A 1st from Newcastle will be better than a 2.1 from Bristol. I agree that the percentage of first class degrees is something to consider (particularly given that your daughter is clearly very bright). However I suspect they will be fairly similar percentages so this may not help much!

I do quite a lot of graduate recruiting and I think that Bristol still has the edge for employers, but Newcastle is a very good university. In most careers it won't make any difference which one she chooses. If her heart is telling her to go to Newcastle then she should do that. Personally I would choose Bristol (slightly more established reputation, closer to home etc) but I think that if your daughter weighs up all of these factors and Newcastle is still her first choice then the difference in reputation is not a factor that should sway her away from Newcastle.

[BristolvsNewcastle]

As for asking for people's predicted grades!!!! How to make friends in an instant! No. You cannot do this.

pmsl - I thought that was clearly a joke! Obviously no, not a socially-acceptable conversation with strangers that you might see again

And as I said in that same post, she decided against applying to Cambridge (which had been her plan for ages and ages) because she really wants to do 3 languages all the way through, which you can't at Cambridge. (Or Oxford.)

She's desperate to live and work in Europe, so I think she feels that reputation of her university might not carry the same weight as it does here.

[DeoGratias]

"A 1st from Newcastle will be better than a 2.1 from Bristol." Not in most decent jobs actually. No way. The institution always trumps the grade.

[Ready123]

DeoGratias - with respect, that is complete nonsense when you are talking about graduate recruitment! In fact, some firms now are "institution blind". When you are comparing graduates from two respected universities such as Newcastle and Bristol, the person with a first will be more likely to get an interview (all other things being equal). It is particularly the case now that many employers use a "points" system that awards more points for a higher degree.

[hellsbells99]

www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/warwick_students_3rd/
If it's the institution that counts, why is Manchester at number 1 of the UK universities targeted by employers?

[Mumsieof2]

That's really interesting hells went to look at the whole high fliers report and its quite interesting read, don't know how to link but, gives a great in depth insight types of companies recruiting in which sectors and if I've not read wrong certain sectors only recruit from 20 or so universities. This is 2016 top recruiters screenshot. Bristol is doing pretty well OP if recruitment is an important factor.

[hellsbells99]

Unfortunately Mumsie the report doesn't allow you to 'drill down' into data which would make it more interesting! For example, in the chart above, it says 18 universities are targeted for Engineering but you cannot see which ones they are.

[Mumsieof2]

Very true hells I suppose it kind of highlights how the top 100 companies only look at a very narrow number of universities to recruit from. But it would be interesting to know why they do that. There's over 100 universities in the UK why only 31uni at most for any particular sector, what's wrong with the others?

[hellsbells99]

I presume these are the ones that they attend for recruitment events etc. If you are from the other universities, you probably have to be more proactive.

[bojorojo]

The big recruiters do not go all university careers/recruitment fairs. Some only go to under 10. Bristol is on the list for most and so is Manchester. Newcastle may not be. Universities lower down the league tables are definitely not visited. Why? Tried and tested as to where the best people are likely to come from. What courses are more rigourous and can be trusted. What A levels or equivalent students need to get into these universities in the first place and culture of the university. Some universities work at a fast pace with shorter terms and more un-supervised research by the students. They are more demanding of their students. They are attributes employers like. If you need CCC to get onto a course and are then spoon fed to get the degree, it is not as good as learning how to research to a high level. The league tables tell you how easy, or not, degree courses are to access. Why would big employers with thousands of applicants ignore where the better applicants are likely to be? Yes, some employers do not care about university, but very many do. This is why some universities are more popular than others. That does not mean to say some courses at other universities are not brilliant - they are.

Working abroad is very vague. You usually have to have skills that are more than a language degree with multiple languages. Many people from multi-lingual countries like Switzerland already speak German, French and Englsh from a young age. It may also be that working to less depth in each subject is not the best idea because being fluent in all three will take some doing unless she is already fluent in one or two. Also, MFL degrees are also about literature and culture. They are not all about acquiring speaking and reading/writing/translation skills.

Often people get recruited here, to a multinational company, and go and work abroad in that company's offices. Usually recruiters look for a 1st or a 2:1. A 2:1 from Bristol keeps doors open and is as good as a 1st from Newcastle. Lets face it, there may only be 1 mark separating a 1st from a 2:1! In my DD's case, doors remained open enough to beat off people with 1sts from Oxford! There really is far more to recruitment than a 1st class degree! With an MFL no-one will care too much if you have a 1st or a 2:1. You may get an extra point or two, but 1st class degrees are weighted by employers. Not all 1st class degrees are the same! Where you go definitely matters. Other attibutes and skills will be taken into account and can far outweigh a 1st class degree, which is only a tiny element of the recruitment process. I would not be persuaded that learning 3 languages at university is the golden ticket to working abroad. This is why Oxford and Cambridge do not do it.

[BlameItOnTheBogey]

OP I haven't read the other posts but I'll say this: I did MFL at Newcastle and was underwhelmed. The quality of teaching was patchy, large parts of my course were simply cancelled part way through and (without blowing my own horn) as an over-achiever, I just didn't find the standard to be particularly high. I hear other people rave about their uni days, I loved school and I love work but I found Newcastle a let down.

If I could do over, I'd pick somewhere else.

[BristolvsNewcastle]

Was that recently Bogey? Worrying if so.

[BlameItOnTheBogey]

Not too recent but also not decades away. Something in one of your earlier posts struck a chord with me:the point about having peers that challenge you. I came from a school which was set a pretty high standards for its pupils and where the level of ambition was high. I didn't find that at uni and it was a huge disappointment. It's hard to write about here without sounding like an idiot but it just didn't feel challenging. Perhaps other years were different.

I was in a very similar boat to your daughter: had planned to go to Cambridge and then changed my mind at the last minute. It's one of my regrets in life if I am honest.

In the long run, it hasn't harmed me. I have a great job that uses my languages and allows me to travel the world. But I think uni could have been different.

[BristolvsNewcastle]

No, you definitely don't sound like an idiot :) That's the sort of thing that I think is more important to my dd than graduate recruitment tbh - as a family we may be naive, but I prefer to think of a degree/university as an end in itself, rather than just a stepping stone to the "right" sort of job.

[LadyLuck81]

I would choose Newcastle in a Heartbeat. I moved to Newcastle for uni (although went to Northumbria for the combined law degree/lpc which no one else did at the time). It was by far the best decision ever. I still live up here. It's an amazing place, living costs are affordable, the life is brilliant.

I know that's only one part of the equation but I've been so very happy here.

[Eyre89]

I'm from near Newcastle and went to Bristol. I wish I'd gone to Newcastle.

Would've had alot more money and needed to work less. You can get really cheap flights from Newcastle to Bristol if you book well. So I wouldn't discount because of travel it's a 45 minute flight. Trains expensive for you cheaper for student with a railcard. For me my degree suffered due to needing to work so many hours to support living in the city. Only part of your equation I know. But the travel isn't so bad.

[Mumsieof2]

bojoro thanks for explaining earlier. It does make sense why recruiters would select. For my DD, going to the best university she could get into with her grades was a important factor. She sees university as a investment for herself and furthering her career. Less emphasis on student life/experience She would have lived anywhere aslong as the university was reputable and the course offered was a leading one even a shite hole if need be, as it would be well worth it in her eyes, once in a lifetime opportunity to go to a very good uni. Time will tell if it was the right move. That's the thing maybe in years to come she may wish she had gone to uni which was less intense and she actually had a life which she doesnt at the moment as the course being quite rigourous for her. Alot will think she is shallow for choosing a uni like that but for her its for 3 years its not forever. Research led/intense was also important factor. She is just focussed on the learning. I think students ultimately have their own criteria to what is important for them in choosing a particular uni. I don't think there's a wrong and a right way as long as they are happy and thriving.

[DeoGratias]

bojoro 's comments are my experience too but it depends what sort of job you want. If you aren't after high pay or prestige go for to ex polys and you might well get a job.

If you want to better jobs Bristol will be on most employers' lists and Newcastle not necessarily as it's next tier down.