why does it matter where you do a degree?

[ssd]

me again (sorry)

I've been learning all about the degree process here and its been an eye opener for me

but something I keep reading confuses me

posters have said its important to do the right degree at the right uni

and that's what's confusing me

I've looked up a certain degree at the 4 uni's local to us

the entry requirements are as follows

first uni; AAAAB

second uni;AAAA/AAABB

third uni;AABBB/ABBBB

fourth uni;BBBC

now they all state the same qualification at the end of the course, so why are the entry requirements so different? is it just not worth doing the degree at the fourth uni even though you will have a qualification at the end of it? will employers poo poo the fourth uni degree?

honest answers please!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Interesting change announced today by EY and PWC. They will in future not look at academic qualifications at all in the early stages, just the results of online tests, to determine who gets an interview. So the playing field will be a lot more level for non-Russell group graduates trying to get into a big accountancy firm, if this experiment works.

[Headofthehive55]

Yes I was surprised, but seeing the changes announced by PWC and EY, perhaps we are seeing a trend.

Work I think needs such different skills to an academic exam it's not surprising really.

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

All universities are not equal

Basically the ex polytechnics are by and large not as good as the Russel Group universities.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

I am going to argue the toss about London UCL is not the oldest college, as St Thomas' was a teaching hospital as far back as 1173. But if you are looking for primary teaching establishment the RVC is the oldest teaching institution awarding it's first diploma in 1792.
That however, is by the by. There is no one right answer it will be very dependent on the degree you are studying where you imagine yourself ending up. I would encourage my DD to take a look at employment stats as well as everything else.

[Headofthehive55]

I sometimes wonder if it's about branding! I used to work for a well known food manufacturer. On one item we would just change the packaging between the brand and the own label.
I just wonder if we are all being persuaded to see a difference that isn't there.

[AyeAmarok]

But there is a very big difference between the quality of degrees between institutions. Eg Economics at a "good" RG university is very different to Economics at one of the bottom universities.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Not at all sure about how that 'no exams' thing will go in practice. I'd take a small bet that whatever questions and 'scenarios' they use for their filtering will be amenable to coaching and serve to favour those in the know.

And of course its an approach which would be a bloody disaster in fields where you really do need years of solid learning like anything scientific, engineering or medical.

[Headofthehive55]

I think they are taking them on to train though. I don't think they are fully qualifield?

I think vocational subjects sometimes operate differently. There are often qualifying exams nationally ( thinking pharmacy , medicine) so in a sense which uni or grade at A level might matter less as you end up doing the very same exam.

[Headofthehive55]

Yes that's my point aye! We are are taught to think this...but how do we really know? What do we really mean when we think a is better than b? What is quality?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Universities are complex organisations. There's a lot more that's individual about universities than brands of baked beans.

Ignoring the bits that are important to the student experience (and therefore have an effect on which students apply), like location, type of campus, standard of accommodation, and focussing just on the academic side:

Standard of research, as so ably explained upthread by UpTheChimney

How good is the library?

Average prior attainment of students - will make a difference to the standard of discussion in seminars/tutorials; a course full of very able students can proceed at a much faster pace and tackle more advanced work than a course where most of the students are still struggling with the basics when they start.

[Headofthehive55]

Well I'd like to agree, only experience has shown me that I should be less trusting than that!

I think there is a difference in students of course so I wonder if it's a similar argument to oh that's a good school when in reality we mean it has a good catchment.

If your aim is to get a job rather than become a scholar, would you still think the same?

[cricketballs]

My DH's cousin did a Law degree at Staffordshire Uni (it's based in Stoke, not called Stoke) and having just become a partner in a Law firm, practicing the area she is passionate about goes against your assertion from one group that you experienced as being the norm swallowed

[Headofthehive55]

I wonder if more people who studied in the polys and other lower ranked institutions are now becoming senior in their companies and are therefore not impressed or bowled over by degrees from impressive unis? Rather they are looking for other skills and abilities rather than where they came from?

[mummytime]

Has anyone mentioned that sometimes a "lower" ranked Uni can be the one to go to for a specific degree? Eg. UEA and Creative Writing.

Also it was never as simple as Unis better than Polys.

It does depend on the munitae of the degree, and exactly what is involved.
I got jobs in the past with my less well thought of Russell Group Uni, which I wouldn't have got with the same name degree from Oxford or Cambridge - because employers were impressed with skills my degree course had covered which are not covered in Oxbridge and other degrees of the same name.

[titchy]

Not sure I'd regard UEA as lower ranked! Don't we basically mean ex polies, and maybe those universities that never made it to RG or former 94 group?

[ssd]

that's interesting, I dont think ds will be going into the RG uni here so that's a bit more positive to read.

[cricketballs]

Now I'm more awake I'll post sensibly rather than defensively

When researching for DS (I went a local uni as I had DC ) we found thatas he wanted to do a more vocational subject, the ex polys were far higher ranked, gave far more industry experience and were taught by lecturers who were still involved with the industry. This, for my DS far outweighed the prestige of the uni.

If he was going to study a traditional subject, then I would have been happier if he had gone to a more well thought of uni; but when doing the rounds of open days, looking at course content, visiting the cities/towns what became very apparent was your DC need to be happy at the uni, the area, the facilities, the opportunities available for at least 3 years

[mummytime]

But some ex-Polys out rank a lot of Unis eg. Oxford Brookes.

Also the course for say English at an ex-poly might be very different to Oxford.

Oh BTW the University of Surrey was once a poly but does pretty well on a lot of league tables (and has one course where it is the place to go).

[UptheChimney]

I think it's really about that mix: discipline/subject; nature of campus; structure & nature of degree course; and so on.

For a vocational subject, a post-92 university could very well be a better fit; but it might not be. For most generalist areas (eg English, History, Biology, Physics), then perceived quality of a university (whatever that might be & however it's measured) might be more important.

[ssd]

but how do you find out these things if you have no experience of uni and you dont know anyone who has, I mean in your family? how do you know how a uni is perceived, how do you know what the best uni/college is for each subject, what research do you do? I've read up a lot of the uni's own pages but how do you get a more balanced, honest view without any experience to fall back on yourself?

thats what I'm struggling with, the only advice I'm getting is from MN.

[mummytime]

I would start by knowing what you want from the degree, and what kind of jobs you are looking for. Eg. with "Computing" do you want some generic office job, or to program or to work in computer security or...
Then look at the nitty gritty of the courses. If you have specific questions do not be afraid to email to ask.
Talk to people working in the field you want to work in, if you don't know anyone contact companies and see if anyone will give you some careers advice. Talk to people from other Universities, if you know anyone who works at the University then talk to them. Try to talk to present students, and off the record if possible (maybe even being bold enough to ask them when they're at the local Supermarket).

Basically use any contacts you have, and ask them for any contacts they might have.

[basildonbond]

There's lots of information online if your ds's school doesn't have a helpful careers department

The Guardian's university guide is good

The Telegraph has a university course finder

And there's the Complete University Guide

[UptheChimney]

I've read up a lot of the uni's own pages but how do you get a more balanced, honest view without any experience to fall back on yourself?

Your son could start browsing The Student Room forums.

Your son needs to start thinking about his criteria:
sports facilities?
music facilities?
hobbies?
political clubs?
self-contained campus? (often a greenfield campus outside a city: eg Warwick, Lancaster)
city campus? eg Manchester, Edinburgh
small-ish?
large?

Also he needs to think about his criteria for teaching & learning:
exams? no exams?
small groups
problem-based learning
how many in his cohort?
Industry year?
Year abroad?

And so on. These are not difficult things to think about -- just help him probe his preferences. Or see what his school does to help him with this. Are there alumni of his school who've been to university? Where? What teacherly advice is there?

Basildonbond has given you useful links to league tables. They are flawed but you'll get education journalists' views, drawn from a series of measurements. The measurements are flawed & limited, but they're a starting point.

If you view them on line, you can usually sort them according to the criteria your son values. Beware, however, the Guardian tables don't take research excellence into account. Whatever people say, research excellence is very important for universities' reputational value.


Frankly, if your son not engaged in the process, he's not ready for university.

[titchy]

Surrey doesn't count as a former polytechnic! When most people say former poly they mean the post-92 universities.

Surrey was a technical college which became a university in the 60's as did many others - very broadly known as the plate glass universities.

Wholeheartedly agree that polys are often far better for vocational courses providing up to date skills employers want.

[ssd]

thanks