What happens if he sits all his A levels a year early?

[Noname1]

Please can someone advise me. My very bright DS is at very well known super selective independent he's in the top 15 for most subjects the top five for maths and physics. He's just sat his IGCSE's and doesn't wish to stay on for the 6 th form he wants to attend our local 6 th form college. He looked at the AS maths paper and can answer all the questions, he looked at the A2 maths paper and can answer 6/8 ditto physics and French. The college have suggested he does maths, physics and French A2 at the end of year 12 and a Further Maths German and one other A2 of his choice (Italian probably) at the end of year 13.
He wants to do physics probably at IC but I thought you had to sit the subjects you wanted to do at Uni at the end of year 13 or could he apply at he end of year 12 (2015) and defer till 2016?

[uiler123]

He does not need to take a year out because of the "full time education until 18" law. Even when 16 was the leaving age there were students who went to university before they turned 16. The rule is not full time education until 18 but rather that everyone under 18 needs to be receiving education and training. University counts.

I agree with previous posters that US universities such as Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Caltech might suit him better.

One issue to bear in mind with Imperial is that they do not generally get the top UK students (although the students they take are obviously very good) and therefore the level at which physics is taught is rather lower than it is in Cambridge. Since he does not like chemistry etc, I understand why he doesn't want to do natural sciences at Cambridge. However, theoretical physics is part of the maths tripos in Cambridge so if he really wants to be a theorist he should be going through maths. (Most of theoretical physics in Cambridge is based in maths, DAMTP, rather than in the Cavendish laboratory of physics.) Theoretical physics is arguably rather stronger in Cambridge than in Oxford.

[Needmoresleep]

Summerends. Have you ever walked past Imperial? Even a quick glance should convince you that it will be nothing like the "bubble of private education".

Imperial is very international. Quite a high proportion of students from the far east, though students will come from everywhere. The cost of living in London is likely to mean that, amongst the British students, there will be more from within the M25, rich and poor, and more from the private sector, including some who want to avoid Oxbridge because they have had enough of the public school thing so are looking for something more urban with fewer traditions.

One big attraction is that degrees are much more specialised than at Cambridge. If you want to study physics, you can. From observation this early specialisation also seems to attract the mathematical children of London based expats, who would normally be aiming for the States but can see the advantage in a shorter, more specialised first degree from a world ranked institution.

Imperial is one of the richer of the London Universities, and has very good sports and social facilities. Many of the students may not choose to mix, perhaps because they are very rich and so live a different life altogether, because they have come here to work hard and so this is what they are doing, or because they are living at home and have kept in touch with old school friends. Despite this there will still be a good pool who choose to mix, they will be very diverse and there will plenty of opportunities to have a good social life.

[summerends]

Needmoresleep although I concur with most of what you say, the 'bubble' of private education (which for at least some UK boarding schoolls is already international) is just as applicable to wealthy overseas students as British students. You don't get many poor overseas students coming to Imperial or as you say many less affluent British students from outside London. Imperial like LSE provides an international mix but in the main not an economic mix of students

[Needmoresleep]

Agreed, though not with everything. London Universities now have a massive problem in terms of recruiting good, but less well-off UK students from outside the M25. Such students are likely to prioritise places like Cambridge, Warwick or Bath. Imperial, Kings, LSE etc are doing some great work with London state school children but are otherwise caught up in a vicious circle. The very international culture of these Universities will not bother kids from either less affluent London state schools or academic private schools, who have experienced the same at school. However this internationalism (including how very hard some students work lots of anecdotes about students who sleep in the library) coupled with living in the Capital, might be off-putting for someone looking at campus or collegiate Universities in order to have a full University experience.

Where we might disagree is on the idea that Imperial will be a private school bubble. Exeter, say, might fit this description better. The DC we know aiming for Imperial, and we know a surprising number, are very bright and comfortable in an international urban environment. They will have schooled with the children of oligarchs and billionaires as well as children on bursaries and be able to take people as they find them. It is not unusual for London private school children who go to Oxbridge to find it a bit provincial, and we know some who have regretted not prioritising degree over University reputation.

The sub-set of students who participate fully in University activities will be smaller. However this group is be very diverse in a bunch of ways and very unlikely to be dominated by Hooray Henrys. I agree that as a result of both economics and because other Universities are chasing able mathematicians from northern state schools, this group will be under-represented, but there will be plenty of other forms of diversity.

(And not all foreign students are rich. When I lived in Asia, Imperial was preferred because it was far easier to find part time work in London. Ditto strong but less well off mathematicians from elsewhere in Europe, often prefer London's diversity.)

[summerends]

A student would definitely get an international urban intelligent (but mostly affluent ) vibe from Imperial /LSE and as you say a more middle class Britain vibe from Exeter.
Anyway, I think we agree. I probably confused you since my definition of private school 'bubble' was based on economic background not on other factors.

[Needmoresleep]

Whereas I was thinking you meant cliquey Gap Yah types who on the whole won't have enough maths to get into Imperial!

I am glad we agree....

I also think that, depending on the type of career you want to pursue, experience of an "international urban intelligent vibe" can be really useful. The DC we know who are going are, without exception, impressive, bright and personable.

[Noname1]

Thanks for all you advise. We've not ruled anything out re universities either here or abroad. We're taking one step at a time but firstly I wanted to be sure by doing A levels this way he's not disadvantage go himself.
He doesn't want to do the broader natural science degree that Cambridge offer but thanks for the advise about Cambridge and the maths tripos that's very interesting. He is (what ever he says) a mathematician, this ultimately is where his ability truly lies, where according to an ed psych report his IQ is significantly higher, as I said he doesn't like anything practical related to physics or in fact science in general, he considers physics to be the only true science because it's applied maths, where as chemistry is only "half" a science and in his view biology not a science at all because it's just learning facts. I'm sure we all remember those days when life was so black and white!

[Noname1]

He is due to his current schooling very familiar and comfortable around the "international urban elite vibe" this is not his gripe with the school. It's the "a good job is one that pays you loads of money and thus enables you to surround yourself with expensive possessions and this is the best route to happiness" ethos thar he dislikes and finds difficult to comprehend.

[sashh]

I think the VI form is thinking about themselves rather than your DS. If he can take 3 A levels a year early and get good grades then why should he spend a second year at VI form when he can go to uni?

Or if not uni a year early then a gap year?

I think you should be talking to uni about what they see as best.

[summerends]

I hope that our DC (who are in the same school type) will maintain your DS's view on life noname. I know that certain of DS' friends are inclined that way particularly as they are used to the comforts of an affluent lifestyle. However a lot of his academic / musical friends are not heading for a job in the city but more likely academia or a musical career. Does your DS feel that endoctrination from his peers or teachers or is he just uncomfortable having a privileged education? Hope you don't mind the questions but I want to be forewarned for my DC in case they also start prioritising wealth.

[titchy]

sassh - op has already said her ds doesn't want to go to university a year early. A gap year could be harmful as top universities much prefer maths and physics to have been constantly studied, ie. without a years break.

The VI form won't be getting any extra money for him doing 6 A Levels, it will in fact cost them extra in exam entry fees. My view is that they're actually being very good and offering him a programme that entirely suits his aptitude and supports his university plans.

[PetraArkanian]

Sounds like he should be aiming for a maths degree not physics! And I second the recommendation for Cambridge in that case!

[Noname1]

summer he feels this is the indoctrination pushed by school and enthusiastically embraced by his peers.
You could say our chickens are coming home to roost we've always pushed the concept that money and possessions don't make you happy or a better person. We're comfortably off but not wealthy we've always told him what we have in enough and also strongly discouraged the idea of him going for a job in the city. My DH works for the super rich and has little time for them.
So now the chickens are all sitting happily on their perch saying "no one to blame but yourself!"

[TweeAintMee]

Sorry - may seem like a silly question but can you do A2s without the AS component first?

[titchy]

Twee - no you can't but you can do both AS and A2 in the same sitting.

[TweeAintMee]

Aha - thank you Titchy.

[BanjoKazooie]

What about just doing a more normal 5 (or 6) AS's in year 12 and then 4 (or 5 ) A2's in year 13 acing everything and doing lots of extra curricular activities. Does it matter if he is not stretched at school for two years? 17/18 can be a really fun age where kids should be starting to really enjoy there independence. He could work, do his own extension work, do work experience, do gold D of E, do loads of sports and generally just enjoy life. My kids all developed strong friendship groups in 6th form college. I have very studious math'sey (I just made that word up) kids and I found they all really matured during their time at 6th form college.

We know a few kids that went to Uni a year early all of whom seem happy. I think not being able to join in freshers week properly is a bit of a shame (however, some Uni's put on special events for non drinkers)

[uiler123]

Why can't those under 18 join in freshers week properly? They are not allowed to buy alcohol but a) this is not always enforced (particularly during busy freshers week events) and b) it doesn't stop them drinking alcohol at parties etc. I had zero issues in this respect when I started university two years early.

[BanjoKazooie]

I was under the impression that they are strict about no under 18s at some of the events. I know at Warwick they don't give Freshers Passes to under 18s SEE HERE. I don't know if it's an issue everywhere.
Two of my DC are teetotal (by choice) and not drinking didn't stop them having a great time during freshers but at least they could attend the events.

[Noname1]

Banjo neither he, the college or I see the point in him spending a whole year doing AS's he can already answer all the question in his chosen subjects bar further maths. He was told that by the teacher that because he's done IGCSE French/German he's "miles" ahead of those who've done just GCSE French he actually said "you'll be bored stiff."
He's a restless individual at the best of times, bored he does not always behave well or cooperate or alternatively he just shut off.
This is the main reason I'm not mad about him moving.

[summerends]

Noname this is more debating the issue than helpful for your practical question but IME highly intelligent individuals like your DS are restless.
I also think that teenagers once they perceive a problem tend to be sensitive to anything that might support their viewpoint and can be a bit illogical.
My impression from my DC in their schools is that there is the 'indicrination' that working hard increases the chances of a bright future and some pupils choose to view that as wealth generating careers, often following their parents' inclinations. However high academic achievement is the primary aim with a good sprinkling of moral debates reinforced by for example daily chapel service and many staff.
It does sound as though your DS wants a fresh environment although it could be argued that he could influence his friends positively if he stayed.

[alreadytaken]

as uiler123 said - he'd apply for mathematics with physics www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/course/mathswithphysics.pdf

He'd have to sit STEP exams and that should stop him being bored and restless. The social mix at Cambridge is probably rather more suitable for him than Oxford and he's allowed to attend any lectures he wants so no-one would stop him attending language lectures in the unlikely event that the course wasn't enough for him. But however able he is he shoudn't assume he'll get a place and not have other choices, a Cambridge mathmo will get 100% or near that in their A2 exams and have good STEP results.

He could go a year early and still have a decent social life and it's a short train ride to London if the university sport isn't enough for him and he doesn't want to take up rowing.

Imperial has a large number of medical students and a larger than average number of male students. He could do language for science classes there and pick up a new language.

[mummytime]

If he sits the two Maths separately then he does risk just being judge on Further Maths. However if he can do most of the basic pure Maths, then maybe he should be moving on to learning that anyway. BTW from the Maths syllabus I know, there are lots of areas of Maths covered and as you can "pick and mix" not all of them would be examined on any one paper - so you would need to look at the whole range of papers for the exam.

If he could get Maths and Further MAths (often taught as equivalent to 1 1/2 A'levels in terms of teaching time) in one year, along with Physics and maybe French. Then I would think the best thing would be to have a Gap year - probably trying to involve some concentrated study in Italy. A friends DD has just completed an Italian degree, having learnt Italian in a 3 month (I think) intensive Italian course in Italy before she started.

[summerends]

Actually, that's a good point about the STEPs. You would need to know what arrangements (if any) the sixth form college have for teaching all the STEP papers (not just 1) as it does sound as though he needs that option.
If you are worried about your DS disengaging could his present school compress his preUs or whatever into a year? He might not mind so much the thought of just another year.

[uiler123]

STEP papers are not taught - they are based on A level material common to all exam boards. Students can prepare themselves by studying past papers.