DC with an A* offer for university?

[MummyMastodon]

Who has a son or daughter taking A2 that includes one or more A* ?

Join me in nail-biting and envy of the 'easy' AAA offer holders.

DD needs AAA for her first choice, (Oxford) insurance is a nice AAB (Bristol) but she reeeally wants Oxford (Bristol looks wonderful too, but apart from anything else, if she goes there as her insurance she might not even get a place in halls, which wouldn't be a great start)

A just seems so relentless - 90% overall in A2 year. One bad exam can blow it all out of the water. She is on track for AAA at the moment, and resitting a rogue January module to hopefully bring the A back within reach for her third subject. But it all seems so dependent on a couple of hours in the exam room!

I suppose I should just be grateful that it's only one A required, I know Cambridge and some of the London Unis can make offers for two or three

[greyvix]

DS says it's fine, and that he didn't miss one. He has done some Physics exams previously. He also needs A*AA for Nottingham, with AAA as insurance for Exeter.

[MariscallRoad]

Yellowtip, it is not clear to me how can one 'obtain the place even if they miss a grade?. Is there something I miss? STEP is a v hard exam but is different to all others. And so are the Oxford assessment tests , which DS had taken and got in - in the distant past.

Moominmammacat indeed more is demanded nowdays. Imperial is one of the top places for Maths. Perhaps there is a reason why some degrees require 2 A*s and may be this is required when study is too demanding.

[Yellowtip]

Mariscall students won't necessarily get in if they miss a grade but there might very well be room for discussion. I'm not sure why you mention STEP and the Oxford pre-tests. I suppose an exceptional performance in STEP might help if a grade is missed since STEP is taken in the summer as well. Arguably I guess a spectacular LNAT or BMAT or other AT (whose result only the tutors will know) could help say a decision. Everything will get thrown into the mix.

[Yellowtip]

sway, not say.

[xylem8]

I am not sure why you think offereees at 'better' universities are more likely to exceed their offer than anyone else?
Also not sure why those missing their A* ae more likely to be accepted at Oxford than elsewhere

[wordfactory]

Because they've interviewed them and like them. A small trip might be accomodated. But at other unis they don't know you at all. They haveonly seen your PS so they are judging you purely on grades.

[lapucelle]

I think it's over simplistic to say that dropping a grade for Oxbridge is more likely to result in acceptance than at RG universities. Contrary to what the previous poster wrote, students are interviewed for some courses at RG universities (albeit less thoroughly than at Oxbridge). Also the landscape has changed in the last two years: now that there is no financial penalty (rather, the opposite) in taking extra students with at least ABB, students are far more likely to be accepted if they just miss grades but are at this level. The main limitations on accepting students are facilities and halls accommodation. Some/most RG universities under-recruited last year and are very keen to get more students this year so, unless it is a very over-subscribed course, students with missed grades above ABB are quite likely to be accepted. Of course there are some exceptions e.g. if the dropped grade is in the most important subject. For example, most RG maths courses want as a minimum A in Maths, preferably A*, and probably wouldn't take a student with a B in Maths because they are unlikely to cope with the course.

[xylem8]

I think it is more of a numbers game.If a university can fill it's capacity with offerees who have gone on to meet their grades,then they are less likely to take someone who doesn't .And that would depend on offers:places I guess.

[Yellowtip]

Exactly what word says about interviews. I say Oxford since Cambridge appears to over offer more and then cull by A, or multiple As, or STEP. It's certainly true about the impact of the financial penalty being lifted though, on the other hand availability of accomodation (living and departmental) provides a constraint.

[wordfactory]

lapucelle I think Oxford is slightly different, in that it interviews fewer applicants than Cambridge and elsewhere.

If you make it past the assessment/interview stage and have an offer in hand, Oxford is more likely to be wedded to you IYSWIM.

[lapucelle]

IME the Cambridge culling by grades is quite subject dependent. Look at the following page:

www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/apply/statistics/

and compare Mathematics with Natural Sciences. Mathematics seems to have made 506 offers for 253 places (asking for lots of high STEP grades) while Nat Sci made 738 offers for 675 places.

I can't find analogous statistics for Oxford so perhaps they do indeed make fewer offers for each science place but I wouldn't think it is enormously different.

[Yellowtip]

lapucelle I agree about subject dependence: 506 for 253 is striking in this context. I disagree that Oxford is not likely to be enormously different.

[Slipshodsibyl]

Striking? You're being kind. I think it's mean to do that to kids.

[Yellowtip]

I'm being very kind Slipshod. I happen to think it's ruthless.

[MariscallRoad]

If Cam made 506 offers for 253 places in Maths, this could mean that they expect 50 per cent to meet the offers of whatever As they ask. In Natural science this means they expect 91 per cent to meet the offer. So, by raising the offers they try to increase probability to have the students with the As they want. These percentages could mean also many other things we do not know: such as they might be based on the offers not met in previous years. But you would not know this fact until you find and read the minutes - if they are accessible - of this particular faculty. One might find that in some degrees the offers were so harsh that the acceptances declined or those few who got in found the course too hard and ... some dropped even in the first Term. I have seen staff like that happening....

Quite a stress for parents and students. What I see is that the requirements for other accepted qualifications such as IB and US AP have not been raised whereas for A-Leves have. I do not know what this means.

[MariscallRoad]

Sorry stuff not staff

[lapucelle]

The main issue going on with Maths is that some international students indeed do not accept the offers but go to the US etc instead and that the offers involve high STEP grades which are easily missed. The argument for asking for the latter is that they are considered better predictors of success in university Maths (many other RG are asking for them in Maths too). Fewer Nat Sci applications come from abroad and are declined to go to the US etc and fewer STEP grades are asked for.

(Previous poster - when you write that the offers involve many issues we don't know bear in mind that many on here, including me, are actually academics who are involved in these admissions.)

[lapucelle]

I should add that I don't agree with offering ultra high grades to many candidates at the bottom of the list and culling by this method.

[YourLittleSecret]

lapucelle offers involve high STEP grades which are easily missed
Not least by those who are achieving their high A* grades in spite of being in an average comp where there is no help with STEP. So much for trying to admit more state school students.

[MariscallRoad]

lapucelle, It is all published by some Math faculties: you dont have to be academic to discover the reasons why they make such offers. these faculties publish also reports how and why previous intakes have performed. - you just google on their uni site and find even without a password. Further these issues are also published in minutes of U-committees. Next, You do not know why international students chose to go to US for Maths unless there is a survey. STEP is a better predictor of success in the Mathematical Tripos at Cambridge says their guide.

[MariscallRoad]

Regards the international students turning down UK offers, a friend of DS did turn down acceptance, she had the grades to be accepted but she had accepted Carnegie Mellon instead.

The trouble is that the UK now has rising fees and living costs, which may be completely subsidised in some international universities, depending on income. This means there is more incentive to study abroad if the students can get the places.

[Yellowtip]

No Mariscall there isn't always going to be more incentive to study abroad if funding is there. Students can get loans in the UK. Life is more complicated than that.

[xylem8]

If Cam made 506 offers for 253 places in Maths, this could mean that they expect 50 per cent to meet the offers of whatever As they ask*
But surely they expect more than 50% to meet the grades because there will be some that don't 'firm' the course.Not everyone does you know!

[NewFerry]

Yellow tip can international students access loans? I thought it was UK and eu students only?
Also, I guess if you can get a non repayable bursary to a US uni, and of course get your foot in the door in the US, that's going to look very attractive compared to the huge fees and living costs you would need to find if you came to the UK.

Obv it would also depend on the comparative Unis.