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Guest Post: “We need a labour market that works for parents.”

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 28/03/2019 13:52

When I was four months pregnant with my first child I was sacked by my employer the day after I informed them I was expecting. My employer was a children’s charity. The experience broke me; my confidence was shattered, my career was on the floor. I had worked so hard to build my reputation and develop my career and it was snatched away from me in an instant, simply because I had dared to use my uterus.

I am not alone. The Government's own data shows that 54,000 women a year lose their jobs for daring to get pregnant, and 77% of working mums encounter discrimination in the workplace. Those figures have almost doubled in the last 10 years. So, the situation is drastically deteriorating.

When mothers dare to complain about how our careers are ruined because we had a baby, the response is usually that it is about choice; we chose to have a baby so we should live with the consequences of those actions. However, choices are not made in a vacuum - they are influenced by environmental, political and cultural factors. I did not choose to live in the country with the most expensive childcare system, and one which forces 870,000 mothers to stay at home when they want to work. I did not choose to live in a country where we are expected to work more hours than the rest of Europe, thereby creating impossible timetables for those of us with caring responsibilities. I did not choose to be beholden to legislation and deeply entrenched gender stereotypes which encourage mothers to be responsible for the lion’s share of caring responsibilities. I did not choose to be rejected from a job simply because I am of childbearing age. Research has shown that a third of employers would avoid hiring me incase I get pregnant on their watch. We seem to conveniently forget that it takes two people to make a baby. Do men not also choose to have children? It is clear they are not passive bystanders in the procreation process. Yet, when men become fathers they get pay rises and promotions whilst mothers are sacked, demoted and sidelined.

Our legislation and company practices have barely changed since the industrial revolution, when men were responsible for bringing home the bacon and women were tied to the kitchen sink. The world is a different place now; many women want to work, and most of us have to work if we want to afford basic things like a mortgage and food. The very many mothers doing it on their own without a dual household income face incomprehensible challenges.

This is a rather bleak portrayal of motherhood and work, but I’m starting to sense some real change on the horizon. Many of us have become increasingly frustrated with the challenges and are pushing for change, while finding innovative ways to overcome the structural barriers we encounter. On the 11th May we will be running our third festival of Motherhood and Work, Pregnant Then Screwed Live, where 300 mothers and over 50 speakers will come together to address confidence issues and give mothers the tools they need to find work that works for them. This growing community of mothers are challenging the status quo and the results go beyond anything we could have imagined:

One mother who attended Pregnant Then Screwed Live said:
"I believed that being made redundant while I was on maternity leave was my fault, that I somehow deserved to be pushed out because I had a baby. I had been feeling confused, stressed and depressed. Being surrounded by other mothers who talked so honestly about their challenges has changed me. I feel strong again. It wasn’t my fault, I didn’t deserve it, and now I feel ready to start my own business and show the world what I am capable of.”

When we are constantly facing professional judgement due to our parental status, it can have a severe impact on our confidence, as well as our career. Many mothers are being ground down by employers who are too short-sighted to see the value in making their workplaces work for mothers.

Campaigns supporting change are being spearheaded by influencers and organisations across the UK, such as Mother Pukka’s Flexappeal and Mumsnet’s campaign to force companies to publish their parental leave policies. Dads are getting involved too, with the Fatherhood Institute showing how three months’ ‘daddy leave’ would benefit the UK economy, help to close the gender pay gap, and have a positive impact on children.

So, the tide is turning. Companies are starting to realise that they are missing out on valuable talent by ignoring 40% of the adult population. Women are coming together to demand change, overcome adversity, and support each other to find new ways to earn a living while being a great parent. We know that we are not less competent or committed when we become mothers; we just need a labour market that works for parents.

Joeli will be returning to the post to answer your questions tomorrow (29/03/2019) at 4.30pm

OP posts:
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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:08

@JazzyBBG

Absolutely. Agree with every word and Jolie is fab. I am currently lucky with my employer in that I get flexibility in terms of hours. However unfortunately I have some other issues at work and would like to get a new job, but.... trying to get the same flexibility elsewhere will be impossible. Any time I mention flexible working people lose interest. Why is it so hard?


Hi JazzyBBG Thank you for the very kind complement!!!
Have you tried some of the amazing flexible working agencies out there? 923 Jobs, Daisy Chain, Mummy Jobs, Doyene are all ace! We are soon launching a campaign to force companies to state flexible working options in job adverts so keep your eyes peeled for that
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Muumuu22 · 29/03/2019 17:09

I was made redundant at 24 weeks but only through luck (and a marvelous director who took 'emergency' leave for a week) had it finalised at 26 weeks so I could claim my maternity packet. It was a case of unfair dismissal but I never proceeded with a case as I was already under huge strain from pregnancy related health issues, an unsupportive partner and a parent had just died.

I spent 2 years soul crushingly applying for jobs and the handful that went further than application I couldn't carry out due to childcare arrangements and travel times - I live in a rural area with limited public transportation and have no family available to help with childcare. I got incredibly lucky to find a job that were amazing with my situation (helped by having a manager who was once in my situation), and being a small office I could bring DC in during the holidays when childcare was more expensive. There is a huge uptapped source of smart, experienced, willing women out there who could work if it wasn't for the obstacles of hours/travel and childcare costs on top. So many admin jobs could be done within school hours but most employers are sticklers for 8-5 jobs and are completely unwilling to be flexible.

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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:10

@chazm84

So true. I was maneuvered out of my role with the announcement coming a couple of days after I told work. I also lost confidence and felt so down I was unable to fight it. In hindsight I should have pursued the matter if only to have left from a stronger position.
My husband also worked for an old school manager who had very old fashioned ideas about fatherhood responsibilities. That job and managers attitude pushed our family to the limit. Husband now has a great role at a family friendly company that also strongly promotes and grows women in their industry. Funny how the two go hand-in-hand!


Hi chazm84 so sorry to hear about your own experience. It feels almost impossible challenging discrimination when it happens. Wish we had been around to support you. That's great news about your partner's job though - give them a shout out! Would love to know who they are
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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:14

@Muumuu22

I was made redundant at 24 weeks but only through luck (and a marvelous director who took 'emergency' leave for a week) had it finalised at 26 weeks so I could claim my maternity packet. It was a case of unfair dismissal but I never proceeded with a case as I was already under huge strain from pregnancy related health issues, an unsupportive partner and a parent had just died.

I spent 2 years soul crushingly applying for jobs and the handful that went further than application I couldn't carry out due to childcare arrangements and travel times - I live in a rural area with limited public transportation and have no family available to help with childcare. I got incredibly lucky to find a job that were amazing with my situation (helped by having a manager who was once in my situation), and being a small office I could bring DC in during the holidays when childcare was more expensive. There is a huge uptapped source of smart, experienced, willing women out there who could work if it wasn't for the obstacles of hours/travel and childcare costs on top. So many admin jobs could be done within school hours but most employers are sticklers for 8-5 jobs and are completely unwilling to be flexible.


Oh Muumuu22 I am so sorry to hear about what happened. When I got sacked at 4 months pregnant I also then discovered I was having pregnancy issues and that prevented me from doing anything about it. To have a parent die in addition to that, well I just can't imagine how you managed to not totally fall apart.
I am so very happy to hear you have found a company that understand your personal situation. It shouldn't be that you are lucky, this should be standard and I totally agree that companies are just stuck in their ways when it comes to working hours.
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SnuggyBuggy · 29/03/2019 17:17

I guess my situation is a little different in that I'm happy to be a SAHM for now and we can afford it but the thought of being one long term isn't great. I doubt I'll be a high flier but want to do something.

In a way the school years worry me more, pre-school childcare may be expensive but it seems more predictable and reliable. Childcare for school age children seems more complicated and daunting to me with all the random days off and long holidays to cover.

I'm hoping to find a job that fits around family but am wondering how easy it is to tell if a job is a flexible one. My old job in NHS admin claimed to be a family friendly one but in reality was very inflexible with rigid set hours even if you were part time and I often saw mums start jobs and end up leaving because they couldn't make it work.

I'm wondering if some sort of up to date resource that helped provide information on how family friendly jobs and industries typically are would help.

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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:21

@SnuggyBuggy

I guess my situation is a little different in that I'm happy to be a SAHM for now and we can afford it but the thought of being one long term isn't great. I doubt I'll be a high flier but want to do something.

In a way the school years worry me more, pre-school childcare may be expensive but it seems more predictable and reliable. Childcare for school age children seems more complicated and daunting to me with all the random days off and long holidays to cover.

I'm hoping to find a job that fits around family but am wondering how easy it is to tell if a job is a flexible one. My old job in NHS admin claimed to be a family friendly one but in reality was very inflexible with rigid set hours even if you were part time and I often saw mums start jobs and end up leaving because they couldn't make it work.

I'm wondering if some sort of up to date resource that helped provide information on how family friendly jobs and industries typically are would help.


Yes, I can totally understand - I have one in school and the after school care and holidays can create an enormous headache. There are a couple of organisations doing something similar to what you suggest. Have you seen this? mybumppay.com
And Working Families do annual list of the most family friendly employers
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SnuggyBuggy · 29/03/2019 17:24

Ooh that looks promising. I'm hoping to take my time to find the right job and that looks like a good resource

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Snog · 29/03/2019 17:28

Yes I was so happy to hear that some uk companies have moved to or are trialing a four day working week. It's very progressive and could really make a huge positive impact on our society.

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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:29

@SnuggyBuggy

Ooh that looks promising. I'm hoping to take my time to find the right job and that looks like a good resource


Also, try some of the brilliant flexible working agencies - 923 jobs, Daisy Chain, Mummy Jobs, Doyene etc.. and of course Mumsnet Jobs. Pregnant Then Screwed Live will be covering flexible working and all the other types of employment you might like to explore
Good luck!
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JoeliBrearleyGuestPost · 29/03/2019 17:31

Thanks for having me everybody. I hope it was useful. If you want to find out more about our event on the 11th May then visit //www.pregnantthenscrewedlive.com and if you want to find out more about our support services if you feel you are facing discrimination then go to: //www.pregnantthenscrewed.com or you can always contact me on: [email protected]

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Jux · 30/03/2019 01:30

Way way way back, Harold Wilson, our then Prime Minister, believed that we would not see full employment again and so saw a solution in reducing the working week and encouraging job shares - which could obviously greatly increase the employment figures. Anticipating that the population might then need occupation in their increased leisure hours, otherwise people may become bored and aggressive, he began building leisure centres. They were supposed to become the hub of the community where people could play sports, enjoy music and lectures, befriend other members of their community.

In fact, that's what we need, and if only Wilson had remained in power we could all be only working 20 or so hours a week and having fun with our families and friends at leisure centres for much ofthe rest of the time.

So, Snog, I am completely with you. Any time I've suggested this division of labour, people have coplained that they won't be able to earn enough, but I think everhng else would have to balance with wages a that it could actually be done, if we had the will. As a population, we apparently don't.

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SnuggyBuggy · 30/03/2019 07:00

I wish there could be more of a healthy medium with jobs. One idea I thought could work for some jobs is an agency that placed students in holiday jobs to allow other workers to do term time only.

This used to happen unofficially sometimes to allow several parents to take holiday leave at once but I think management decided it was too much effort and just placed firmer restrictions on leave. There was a lot of drama with an office where all 4 had school aged kids and all wanted to do a 2 week holiday in August.

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Snog · 30/03/2019 07:30

In the recent experiments or permanent changes to a 4 day week in the UK people did the following with their time:

Volunteering, exercise, spending time with friends/family/caring, hobbies. So the 4 day week could lead to

Better mental and physical health (less costs for NHS)

Higher employment (less costs for DWP)

More volunteering ( less costs for social services etc)

Improved relationships and connectivity for families and individuals, more sharing of parental responsibilities.

Individuals building skills and experiences via hobbies.

In fact we could possibly even move to a three day week without negatively impacting the wealth of the country overall although clearly there would be a rebalancing effect where the gap between rich and poor was reduced.

I would combine this policy with an extensive house building programme aiming to provide high quality social housing and to vastly reduce private renting and thus eliminate huge housing benefit payments to landlords. This would also drive down house prices in the private market making them more affordable to buy.

What party should I vote for to get what I want?

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OhamIreally · 30/03/2019 07:55

I think the title of this post "parents" is inaccurate, as clearly it is only mothers who are being discriminated against.

One of the ways in which this could be reduced is to further change paternity leave to ensure that fathers share the burden of this so called "choice".

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SimonJT · 30/03/2019 08:40

OhamIreally

I didn’t realise I was a mother Hmm

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SnuggyBuggy · 30/03/2019 09:49

It doesn't necessarily have to be an issue for mothers but it does seem like unless a family is either wealthy enough for a nanny or has retired grandparents willing to do childcare there has to be a parent (of whatever sex) whose job takes a back seat until the kids are old enough not to need looking after.

Unless both of a couple are lucky enough to be in flexible or part time work that pays enough to live on its hard to share the load equally when responsibility for children has such a detrimental effect on a career. In our case it makes sense for one of us to be the fall guy who has to let down work whenever there is a sick child while the other one prioritizes bringing home the bacon so to speak.

Also to be fair I have definitely moaned about managers at work who have to let everyone down and disappear to pick up a sick child so I'm probably a bit of a hypocrite.

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Sunonthepatio · 30/03/2019 10:06

So true. I came back from a maternity leave post to find that in my absence the team had been reorganised and my job surplus to requirements. On top of that, it wasn't precisely my work area at all, which I argued cogently and for some weeks. The other person in my position had a family member just diagnosed with a life threatening illness and two small children. That person also wasn't in a role being deleted.

Both of us complained for some weeks and I decided to leave anyway, given the prejudice displayed. I involved my union and argued for and got a payout of a year's salary.

How dare these employers get away with dumping long standing and effective members of staff the minute there is a possibility they may become a fraction less productive.

To be frank I think it's got worse since then, not better. Employers are just careful how they go about it.

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Jux · 30/03/2019 10:59

Snog, if you were a political party, I would vote for you.

The only thing I'm not necessarily 100% behind you is housing. Why are we (as a Nation, I mean) so keen on ownership? Why not much more renting, long term rentals so children can grow up in the same house, as was common on the continent?

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Kpo58 · 30/03/2019 12:16

Why are we (as a Nation, I mean) so keen on ownership?

Because for hundreds of years renters have been screwed over by dodgy landlords and sudden evictions, so it's ingrained in the national psyche that if you want stability, you need to buy somewhere (especially now so many of the council houses have been sold off).

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OhamIreally · 30/03/2019 12:57

SimonJT did you get sacked or marginalised at work when you reproduced?

Don't know what the Hmm was for.

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SimonJT · 30/03/2019 14:02

Yes I did, as I clearly stated on this very thread.

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SnuggyBuggy · 30/03/2019 14:11

I think both the labour market and housing market are dysfunctional and don't work well together and aspects of the education system don't help like different schools having different holidays or children starting reception doing weeks of half days and it just being assumed that there is a SAHP who can collect them.

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OhamIreally · 30/03/2019 14:53

Simon. Ah yes. Read your post, didn't note your username. Didn't reproduce but did a good thing.
Stand by my comment regarding paternity leave. It would be interesting to understand how adoption leave is allocated- does one parent get to take the lion's share or can it be split?

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Bagpuss5 · 30/03/2019 16:10

This is not about work but about school. I am getting on a bit now but occasionally pick up DGCs from school. As everything is so safety oriented now each child comes out individually and is ushered to the parent (mostly Mums). OMG it takes forever, thankfully my DCs after year 1 were left to their own devices (small village school) but being there for year 1 was quite committing but today it is crazy. Then there are the horribly busy roads as everyone drives to do pickup, probably due to time shortage. On top of that there is the excess of homework for tinies. It all so adds to the stress of every day life.
I don't know how it is done in other countries (except the US where there are buses) but this seems very rigid and time demanding.

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