Guest post: "We assumed we'd get our first choice school - we were wrong"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

With our local primary school a nine minute walk from our front door, we assumed that was where our daughter Poppy would go. While we'd dutifully filled in three other options on our application, we'd only visited our first choice. That was where we wanted to go.

As the offers rolled in for all Poppy's friends from nursery on the big day, we were convinced hers wouldn't be far behind. Discovering she had a place at a different school was a shock. Immediately, we blamed ourselves for being so naïve.

We weren't upset that Poppy wouldn't be continuing to school with her friends, or that the other school was a car journey rather than a short walk away. We were worried that the school she'd been allocated had a decidedly bad reputation. So, we decided to appeal against the decision.

I spent the following day on the phone. A woman from school admissions explained the appeals process and told me we were automatically on the waiting list for our first choice. I spoke to the local council, other schools, fellow bloggers and parents. I didn't find anyone who had won an appeal that wasn't based on exceptional circumstances.

The assumption we'd made that Poppy would attend the school up the road was rapidly collapsing. Despite this, I decided to persevere; I'd heard enough stories about the school Poppy had been allocated to know I didn't want her to go there.

I requested for Poppy to be put on the waiting list at two other schools and arranged a visit at the school she'd been offered a place. By the end of the day, I was exhausted. When I collected Poppy, her two best friends crowded round to ask why Poppy wouldn't be going to school with them. I didn't know what to say - but thankfully Poppy wasn't within earshot.

Later, we discovered that at our local school, most places had been offered to children up to 0.6km away. We live 0.7km from the school. All 90 of the reception spaces had been offered, with over 70 children on the waiting list.

In advance of our appeal, we had to submit supplementary information supporting our case. This had to focus on why our first choice school was the only one for Poppy, rather than our concerns about the other school not being right. We had a long list of reasons but specifically focused on three areas: location, health and wellbeing, and personal development.

However, when we got to the appeal we were told that any new information included in our written submission was inadmissible – so the details we'd provided about the local school being best for Poppy were discounted. It was clear from the beginning that the appeal was a pointless exercise, but we pushed on regardless and put forward our case.

A week later we were notified we'd been unsuccessful. We remained optimistic as Poppy was still on the waiting list for our first choice and by August 2015 she was fourth place. However we decided to make the best of the situation and give the school she'd been allocated a chance.

Poppy is a bright and sociable child so we hoped she'd settle in. During the weeks that followed it certainly seemed she was doing well and making friends. But the week before parents evening we discovered that wasn't the case. Poppy wasn't doing as she was told, didn't want to listen and was being rude. It was heartbreaking to hear and easy to attribute to her being at the 'wrong' school.

Luckily, the change in Poppy from December to now has been astounding. She's progressing brilliantly with her reading and she's obsessed with writing. I was delighted when I saw what she's been doing at parents evening. It highlighted not just how far she's come but also how brilliant the school is – even if it's not what we initially envisioned. Poppy's teacher and her assistants are fantastic and Poppy loves going to school.

Our story goes to show that you shouldn't make any assumptions about schools – whether that's about getting your first choice or what a school will be like once your child is there. If you don't get the school place you wanted, try not to be disheartened - and perhaps don't bother appealing unless you have an exceptional case!

Thinking of appealing? Read our guide to all you need to know.

[FanDabbyFloozy]

It is incredible to think that there are so many 4 year olds within 600m of a school. More likely is the situation that siblings take priority, whether they still live in the vicinity or not.

We also need to tackle the free school issue - of all the free schools set up in my Borough, we can't attend any as we are not the right minority religion. So many more school places but only some can attend them.

As for the OP's new school, I do think you need to wait before declaring success. My experience is that it's the latter years where a school's reputation is made or broken.

[xenabrown]

I'm 6 weeks pregnant and 2 days I have all my symptoms but not feeling any pains no more is that normal?????

[2boysnamedR]

Ah offers day tomorrow. I didn't get any of my three nearest schools ( I put three down) eight years ago.

This time I only have a sibling place as a real possibility. Put down that my boys have a statement and neither can be left alone with I pick the other one up from a school miles away and that was rejected by all the schools as well.

Some places there isn't real choice

[GreenGoth89]

Jenny70- that seems very harsh! We simply haven't the money to do that, it would mean he had to be home schooled, which would mean we would have to sack off extending our family until he was out of primary school, which would mean such a large age gap we probably wouldn't do it. That's a bit scary!

I can't always depend on my scooter, ive had batteries fail, tyres go, the motors don't last forever. I don't like to be too far away from home without some back up just in case something happens. I've been told they do it based on distance to front door - and it is our nearest as I can use a cut through where as others have to go the long way round.

A friend of mine threatened to home school and she got a place that way. Has anyone else had experience of that happening?

[Jenny70]

Greengoth, we did homeschool instead of taking the offered place. We had DS in local school (yr3), and then they offered DD a school place in opposite direction and considerable distance (2 buses) - there was no way I could get them both in two different directions at the same time for dropoff and pickup (with younger DS in tow), and with my medical issues it was an absolute no-can-do (but even without I don't see how you could make it work).
But alas, my appeal was unsuccessful. Good news was that home schooling went well, and eventually (took 2 years) she got into same school as her brother, even with sibling priority and living close to the school no-one left her year group in over 14 months (and then someone else had a closer living sibling that bumped her down the list so we got the next vacant place).
Sigh.

[curren]

A friend of mine threatened to home school and she got a place that way. Has anyone else had experience of that happening?

It's a very risky move and almost everyone recommends not threatening home schooling unless you are actually in a position to do it. As it it could end up with you doing it.

When you win an appeal they don't tell you why. I am 99% sure your friend didn't win just because she threatened home schooling. She will have have had other reasons.

If that's all it took, everyone would do it.

[AuntieStella]

"A friend of mine threatened to home school and she got a place that way. Has anyone else had experience of that happening?"

No they'll heave a huge sign of relief, and reoffer the place currently allocated to someone on the waiting list.

Have you been in touch with any Home Ed groups, and started to think about what approach you will take?

[meditrina]

GreenGoth

If you want to make a case that they have measured your distance wrongly, then you need to ascertain that they have actually done so. It should be stated whether they use crow flies distances, in which case your cut through it irrelevant, or if it's safe walking route, in which case you also need to see how they define that, eg pavements and recognised (lit/paved) footpaths only.

If your cut through should be classed as a footpath, you might be able to get your home/school distance altered. Snag is, you may well not be the only address affected, and everyone's distance will be re-measured and other people's may be shortened too, which means they would be admitted ahead of you.

Did you supply evidence of your mobility restrictions when you first applied, and did you ask for these to be considered as reasons to offer you a place on exceptional social grounds? Does the school even have a category for that?

[sportinguista]

I remember being in this position three years ago. We got fourth choice which was our catchment school, we only had a vague chance at first choice and I'd put that on the off chance it might happen, we did think we'd have a realistic chance at 2 and 3 but the birth rate and children coming into the area from abroad is high where we are so numbers had shot through the roof.

We did go on waiting lists but saw ourselves go down and down each one so I stopped even ringing and resigned myself to it. We couldn't attend the settling sessions as they happened whilst we were on holiday and I had to buy a book bag and a jumper on the first day.

All told it wasn't as bad as we'd thought, the school was listed as good and went down to requires improvement which it has been for sometime. The staff are lovely and the pastoral care is great. Some of the academic work is not great and we've had issues with reading diaries etc. The social side is the worst bit as most of the children come from one demographic which we are not included in and the social life tends to revolve around that. I still don't love the school and we are moving to get one which is a better fit, but he has thrived and come on, he has made some lovely friends which we'll stay in touch with even when we move.

Sometimes it isn't as bad as you build it up to be and ofsted isn't the full picture. Whilst I'm not disputing that there may be some very inadequate schools there are some which are working very hard under challenging circumstances and provide a good education and a caring ethos.

[Thistly]

We were told that any new information included in our written submission was inadmissible – so the details we'd provided about the local school being best for Poppy were discounted

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?

[curren]

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?

there is a lot in this post I don't understand.

It's fairly standard to submit all your evidence (in writing) no later than 10 working days before. Anything you find or submit after that, they can discount. Or anything to turn up with on the day that you haven't mentioned before, they can discount.

But the fact that the OP says 'in our written submission' so sounds like the panel should have considered it.

Either she means it was written down but not given to them before the deadline.

Or

The appeal panel decided to ignore her evidence. Which they shouldn't be able to do.


I know a few people who have kept information back. Thinking it is so great it will win them an appeal. They seem think it's Perry mason and a shock piece of evidence is the way to go. There was even a thread on here where someone was going to do that. They don't realise that it can be ignored.

The OP has been through the appeals process but isn't very clear about what happened. Which is strange.

[meditrina]

"We were told that any new information included in our written submission was inadmissible – so the details we'd provided about the local school being best for Poppy were discounted"

That's probably nothing to do with when the information was submitted, but rather that 'balance of prejudice, (ie why the disadvantage to the pupil by not being admitted out weighs disadvantage to other pupils by school being over numbers) is not a permitted grounds to appeal when ICS rules apply (which they do for the vast majority of reception appeals).

The only permitted grounds are error which deprived you of a place you would have been offered if they'd done it right, entrance criteria which do not comply with the Admissions Code and which deprived you of a place had they been correct, or a decision which is so perverse it cannot be allowed to stand (eg child protection issues).

The panel was totally correct to disregard information which does not relate to the permitted grounds to appeal when ICS rules are in force.

[Thistly]

Thank you curren and meditrina, so the op is being unclear. I needed to know that, as I was worrying that panels can just disregard your submission. It didn't seem quite right.

[Thistly]

Op could edit... Change any to the, and it reads like that meditrina says.

[curren]

Yes meditrina is right it may have been that it wasn't relevant.

However my experience has been (and that of the people I spoke to during out appeal) that the parents wouldn't be told it was inadmissible. They would be told it's not relevant or simply lose the appeal.

It's the word 'inadmissible' that confuses me. Being told it's not relevant during the appeal, I would understand. But the OP has been so unclear.

The three areas (location, health and well being and personal development) that she gives can be used at an appeal. I used them myself. It would be helpful if the OP clarifies it it was inadmissible or not relevant. And what they submitted.

[meditrina]

curren what year group was your appeal for?

The issues you cite can all be considered in appeals where ICS rules are not in force (ie y3 and above, but only when there are not 30 per teacher for R, 1 and 2).

[Fulltimemummy85]

I researched past subscription levels of the schools near by. I put my daughter in a preschool 2 miles away knowing the chances are she would get in to the primary. I knew the local primary was oversubscribed, she got in to the one 2 miles away. I would travel as long as it took to get to the best possible school.

[pennycann1]

I was devestated 3 years ago when my son did not get into my first choice, it was the school he had been in nursery at and had lots of friends- he knew no-one in the new school. But I have to say 3 years on he is in year 2 and I couldn't be happier. He is a popular happy boy and some of my friends in choice number 1 are not as happy as they thought. I went through the appeals process and did feel totally cheated by the system as I really had no choice.

[NKffffffff82e1fbf4X1276dfcd379]

We didn't get a choice there was one school on the list, its under special measures and I just don't like it it's next to the primary school my boys are at now so I know the school well. I will try to appeal but feeling like it may be a waste . My son is very bright and I'm worried that he won't be encouraged enough at the school offered as they have a very poor achievement record !

[sportinguista]

Update to my post above, things didn't pan out so well and we weren't happy as we went along and this January we decided to pull out and home ed whilst we decide on moving which could be back to my husbands home country. We did look at moving him but most of the schools with places were worse. I do now regret not trying to move him earlier but we honestly thought we'd have the house move in the bag but a huge amount of unforeseen events have put it on hold. I am lucky in that I do have the option to home ed and he's thriving and we have some great groups here. I'm actually cool about home edding until senior school now!

[Fulltimemummy85]

I wouldn't always listen to Ofsted I worked in a good school there was nothing good about it!

[minifingerz]

Are you aware that it costs schools money to address appeals?

Money that right now they haven't got.

[SOAli]

We just this evening received a response from our local authority confirming that none of our preferences including a school 5 mins walk away had a place for our DD.

As a result I'm up late this evening trying to look at our options while visiting childlawadvice.org.uk I happened to stumble across this article during my searches.

Feel sorry for all families who have to go through this, but at the same time I am a bit disgruntled that my DD has been overlooked in the same way even though we have been living in the same property for 30-odd years in the same borough.

Then it hit me...

Most of the issues stem from shortages and cuts, but there are people out there who try and circumvent things like 'catchment' and 'distance' by buying a property closer to the school, thus increasing demand and then over inflating house prices as a result.

I have created a petition for parliament. If in the space of 6 months it collects enough signatures then it will be discussed in Parliament.

The petition is to help Introduce a criteria into School Admissions Code where a family's length of borough residency must be considered when offering school places - specifically measuring the time the family have lived in their current home - and place this criteria ahead of 'catchment areas' and 'distance from school'.

Whatever happens with my circumstance I will inevitably have to deal with but there is a minority such as myself who feel let down by this system.

I apologise for using this thread to get this message out there, but at the same time am not sorry if it this possible rule change helps just one family.

If at all possible, I ask for a little help to spread the word.

I'll hopefully get enough sponsors by end of today to get it up and running then I can post the link.

Thank you