Y2 advanced daughter bored and frustrated

[Justhearforadvice2023]

Our daughter has always been clever. She’s always been ahead of her peers and this was picked up at nursery. She’s an October birthday.
She’s now in y2 and really frustrated.
She was frustrated in y1 but because she’s at a small village school she was taught with y2’s so the issues weren’t as highlighted.
The school has now got more students and enough to have a separate y2 class.
I understand that most schools are taught with schemes now. Do these accommodate children that are faster learners or already have the knowledge? I can see how bored she is which is such a shame as she loves learning. She said they rarely to independent learning and when they do she finishes before everyone else and then has to help the other children.
I’ve spoken to her teacher who promised to give the children that were more able, additional challenges. It seems this has lasted 5 minutes.
I don’t really know what to do. She wizzes through exercise books we buy for her… then I’m worried we should be leaving it for school. But she’s inquisitive and genuinely loves learning.
Please don’t think we are pushy parents either! I’m still trying to get our 5 year old son to count to 10 but literally anything and everything is more interesting!

[parietal]

this is tricky, but if she accelerates too much at school, she will always be separate from the rest of the class.

I'd encourage her to take part in lessons, do the work set (even if it is too easy) and the extensions, and to focus on making friends and helping people too.

then at home, you can help her have broader knowledge. So not going ahead in the syllabus, but reading more widely or trying out different activities in art / music / computer programming etc. Things that are parallel to the school lessons rather than ahead.

at this age, the kids who are ahead seems like they are miles ahead, but they will all settle down. And in the long run, it won't really do her any favours to be a long way ahead of her peers.

[MiniBossFromAus]

@parietal

this is tricky, but if she accelerates too much at school, she will always be separate from the rest of the class.

I'd encourage her to take part in lessons, do the work set (even if it is too easy) and the extensions, and to focus on making friends and helping people too.

then at home, you can help her have broader knowledge. So not going ahead in the syllabus, but reading more widely or trying out different activities in art / music / computer programming etc. Things that are parallel to the school lessons rather than ahead.

at this age, the kids who are ahead seems like they are miles ahead, but they will all settle down. And in the long run, it won't really do her any favours to be a long way ahead of her peers.

This, with bells on.

You will almost certainly find that the others will catch up to your DD over the next few years, so be careful not to overbuild her confidence in being top of the class. It can be quite crushing when they get toppled.

[MusicMum80s]

It’s difficult. Really bright children who are not challenged at school can sometimes flounder for a variety of reasons. Some never develop study skills or they disengage from school as it’s so tedious and massively under perform their potential.

Boredom for gifted kids is noted to kick in around age 8 so she seems very typical in this respect.

Stretching her sideways at home in ways that develop resilience and growth like playing an instrument can be useful. I’d also ask if your DD can do specific enrichment activities at school once she’s finished her work. NRICH is a great resource. You could also suggest an independent project she’d be interested in doing once the main work is done. You don’t have to accelerate for challenge. Working on a topic in greater depth and complexity can be equally challenging. Problem solving and open-ended investigations work particularly well. If you make some suggestions for resources yourself that might help, the school might be supportive.

Its not easy as state schools teach to the average pace of learning which is far too slow for the most advanced kids

[LetItGoToRuin]

My daughter was similarly bored and over-used as a class helper, though that was mostly in Y1. It did depend on the teacher - we were lucky that the Y2 teacher was very keen on the bright children, so DD was happier there.

In Y1 we encouraged DD to finish her work quickly (and as well as she could!) and then ask for something a bit harder - always politely. Basically, to make herself a positive problem! Occasionally there was more (harder) work available, but more importantly the teacher became sorely aware that DD's needs were not being met. This built up an evidence base for a later conversation with the teacher.

Regarding helping others, DD did a lot of this in Y1, but started to feel uncomfortable with helping certain children, particularly her friends. As soon as there was any hint of meanness from another child, I advised my DD to tell the teacher, and then I asked to speak to the teacher and I explained that this was affecting the social dynamic between the children (which it was!) and asked that she be given additional work instead, where possible. I said she would always have a suitable book in her bag so she could read if there was nothing else suitable.

It wasn't a perfect solution, but DD got through that year, and things picked up in Y2. Hopefully you'll find something that works for your DD this year and things will pick up as she goes through the school.

I agree with others that suggest greater breadth of learning at home, rather than getting 'ahead' with the traditional subjects, which will only lead to more boredom in the classroom.

[KevinDeBrioche]

DD16 was bored all the way through Primary. As soon as she hit secondary suddenly work got harder and a lot more clever kids popped up. Now she’s bright but no longer top of the tree and it’s LOT better that way (those on for straight 9s are creating a lot of stress for themselves) .

chill out and let her be.

[Slothlikemum]

Explaining to other children is actually part of the stretch work in a curriculum. Being able to articulate the concepts and the approach as well as just know how to do it is further cementing and advancing her expertise is her subjects.

[Hoogieflip]

@Slothlikemum This worked very well with my DC. They also took piano lessons (using a keyboard with 3/4 sized keys) which involved learning to read music.

[MusicMum80s]

Yes but best practice isn’t to do this with peers. At our school kids who are advanced tutor younger children in the topic. Languages and maths.

[namechangefanx]

Can she volunteer to become a leader or a captain at school? In our school we have eco leaders, school councils, sports leaders etc etc. DD is in Y6 and has done/doing most of the leading roles including House Captain - she does so much for the school, including teaching less able children and being buddies for those who don't have anyone to play with.

We've been told by School they have never seen such an able child, so naturally she has been bored at times and I admit it was more difficult in the lower years.

At home we have tried to help her answer the many questions she has and have borrowed and bought hundreds of books to support her curiosity. She's also been in Beavers and cubs to really have fun with her peers while learning some of the most important life skills.

I wouldn't purely focus on your daughter's academic abilities but also develop her qualities as a whole person.

[MartaFlutterButterBye]

You should speak to SENCO as they are often in charge of GandT children. She deserves to reach her potential. You could consider a scolarship for her maybe.

[extrastrongmints]

the whole "it'll all level out in a few years / the others will catch up by year 3" is addressed here:
https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/disproving-myths-about-gifted-students/
and here:
https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/plateauing.htm
In short, it's myth. They don't level out, unless they become so bored that they completely disengage, and that's not normal development.

"Explaining to other children" etc. instead of working on appropriately advanced curriculum matching their own prior attainment and needs is exploitative. Rogers (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Re-Forming-Gifted-Education-Matching-Program/dp/0910707464)?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 cites research that shows that such pairing arrangements ("mixed ability dyads") benefit only the less able member of the pair.

Acceleration - either full year, or in specific subjects, is the most effective intervention for gifted students. However the British education system has largely rejected it for two reasons: firstly the DfE and other organisations are peddling political dogma and not looking at evidence. G&T and acceleration were both seen as Labour initiatives, so naturally the Tories have to do the opposite. Secondly, British teachers are not trained in gifted education and are unaware of the positive research base for acceleration. e.g. https://www.accelerationinstitute.org/nation_deceived/

[namechangefanx]

I've never felt teaching the less able kids are exploitative as we were able to stretch DD at home. The teachers have said it's so difficult to give her challenge when she is so advanced, which is not just 2-3 years but 5 or 6. They're simply not trained to teach higher level curriculum. For many gifted children acceleration by 1 year would simply not be enough unfortunately.

For this reason we're probably opting independent sector for secondary (if she gets accepted with bursary) who are able to cater for her academic needs but also have the holistic approach to education.

[BlowingAway]

Similar feeling with my son who is 8 after this last parents evening. Probably not so pronounced as with your daughter but so many comments on how advanced he is, how he's working a couple of years above in some areas, how there aren't many kids on his level to interact with.

He's also getting somewhat bored and has some other issues which mean he's unfortunately becoming obviously disinterested when others in the class are slower - not going to do him any favours socially!

Not sure what can be done really. We always make sure he has a book with him to occupy himself.

Also considering independent/selective secondaries.

[modgepodge]

I’ve never understood when people say ‘they all level out in the end’ (about young children working ahead) - I mean they don’t, do they? Not all children end up getting the same scores in y6 SATS, GCSEs, A levels…realistically the ones who are doing well in y2 will probably do later on too. Not to say some of the average/struggling kids won’t also go on to do well of course, but it’s nonsense to pretend all children end up at the same end point.

I now work in the independent sector and one of the reasons I prefer it is that I am not limited to ‘broadening’ and using gifted children to teach others in the class. I give them work matched to their ability - gasp!! Such a shame the state sector does not do this much anymore. I can imagine many able children up and down the country are bored due to lack of staffing/weird government policies which prohibit appropriate challenge.

[extrastrongmints]

@namechangefanx

I've never felt teaching the less able kids are exploitative as we were able to stretch DD at home. The teachers have said it's so difficult to give her challenge when she is so advanced, which is not just 2-3 years but 5 or 6. They're simply not trained to teach higher level curriculum. For many gifted children acceleration by 1 year would simply not be enough unfortunately.

For this reason we're probably opting independent sector for secondary (if she gets accepted with bursary) who are able to cater for her academic needs but also have the holistic approach to education.

If everyone else in your class is wearing size 3 shoes but you're a size 7, and the teacher made you wear a size 3, that wouldn't be acceptable. You'll be less uncomfortable in a size 4 than a size 3. It's still not optimal, but it's better than nothing. Deciding to do nothing rather than take a first step in the right direction is bogus logic.
The fallacy here is in assuming that only one year can be skipped and/or that year-skipping can't be combined with other measures such as subject acceleration and/or an IEP. Experts in gifted education including Professors Miraca Gross and Joyce Van Tassel-Baska have stressed that acceleration should be to the level of the child's ability, not capped at one year. Gross found that with exceptionally gifted children at least two years acceleration was needed to make a meaningful difference, and advocated a series of year skips, starting early. They also noted that most programmes of radical acceleration (by 2+ years) start with a single grade skip, therefore the "one is not enough, therefore we shall do zero" argument does not hold.
The normal range of ability is roughly +/- one-third of chronological age. By late primary this is 3-4 years. So 5-6 years in primary is rare, but does happen for a fraction of a percent of kids. Involving a local secondary school is one option. Bringing in a tutor, or using computer instruction, for specific subjects (e.g. for maths) are others. But if a school is not willing to accelerate or implement a comprehensive IEP then you're flogging a dead horse.
Schools in the independent sector are not necessarily any better - they can be just as rigid. Ultimately they deliver the same curricula so that exams can be taken at the same age. There tends to be more extracurricular provision on offer but at a level pitched at reasonably bright but unexceptional children of the same chronological age. i.e. most private schools cater fairly well for the top 25% but not the top 2%. Independent schools are not necessarily a solution for the same reason that learning a musical instrument or playing chess outside school - while good things to do - are not solutions: they don't address the crushing boredom and disengagement that gifted kids experience every day, all day, in the classrooms where they are not accelerated and forced to work on material years below their attainment.

[MusicMum80s]

Agree 100% with the posts on here. The narrative that advanced kids level out is a nonsense. It happens sometimes and there are late bloomers but in general advanced kids stay advanced and without the right level of challenge are at risk of underperforming academically for a variety of reasons.

Challenge doesn't have to be acceleration though. Increasingly difficult problem solving and open-ended investigative tasks within a topic are great ways of extending and challenging gifted children without racing through the curriculum.

[PabloandGustheGreySquirrels]

@Justhearforadvice2023

Our daughter has always been clever. She’s always been ahead of her peers and this was picked up at nursery. She’s an October birthday.
She’s now in y2 and really frustrated.
She was frustrated in y1 but because she’s at a small village school she was taught with y2’s so the issues weren’t as highlighted.
The school has now got more students and enough to have a separate y2 class.
I understand that most schools are taught with schemes now. Do these accommodate children that are faster learners or already have the knowledge? I can see how bored she is which is such a shame as she loves learning. She said they rarely to independent learning and when they do she finishes before everyone else and then has to help the other children.
I’ve spoken to her teacher who promised to give the children that were more able, additional challenges. It seems this has lasted 5 minutes.
I don’t really know what to do. She wizzes through exercise books we buy for her… then I’m worried we should be leaving it for school. But she’s inquisitive and genuinely loves learning.
Please don’t think we are pushy parents either! I’m still trying to get our 5 year old son to count to 10 but literally anything and everything is more interesting!

Look I don't mean to be rude but every parent believes their child to be gifted and "Ahead of their peers" She's in Year 2! Allow her to be a child fgs! If the school feel she's that much 'advanced' then they would move her up a year...

[lemonsandlimesx]

School isn't just about academic learning though is it.
I often find the more able kids are quite rude, as they think they know better and because they complete their school work quickly, they don't have to follow school rules and expectations.
Keep encouraging your DD at home.
Get her into after school clubs.
Encourage her socially.
This whole narrative about school just being for academic learning, really baffles me.

How can a child be bored. Maths and English aren't the only subjects. PE, dance, science experiments, quiet reading, art, history, DT investigations etc etc.

It's just a ridiculous notion to say she's bored. She may complete the work early, but not all learning is about that. Creativity and investigating and making also has an impact. PE lessons are not just about jumping on the spot 20 times to see who is the quickest...

[Zapx]

I’d disagree with the fact that they all level out- this might happen, yes, but that’s because your child isn’t being stretched and instead being given the same work as everyone else. Obviously if they’re never stretched then it would even out wouldn’t it?

Personally I’d give up relying on the school. Take things into your own hands- use school purely as social and do your own education. Loads of great board games/card games for stretching mathematical ability and speed, doesn’t have to be sit down worksheets/lessons.

[HipHipWhoRay]

Something our school was open to was moving kids up for Maths/phonics type lessons, but keeping them in the original year group for general ‘world’ learning. Interestingly the head was clear that advanced kids were rarely emotionally advanced, and could often read but lacked comprehension and struggled with the play behaviour/relationship things that go on when in ‘wrong’ year etc, and so it didn’t serve them to move them up year groups for everything. It made sense and was probably true for my daughter.

[AttillaThePlum]

Been there, got several t-shirts. DD was very ahead and we had all sorts of promises from the school but they didn't have the time or resources to deliver them.

It all hit the fan for us in year 2 as well with a teacher who just wasn't prepared to do anything - funnily enough at almost exactly this point in the year. We ended up moving her to a smaller school that had a good reputation, funnily enough, for SEN and so were prepared to be more flexible. This worked for a few years (she did comprehension while other kids were reading to the teacher for example). With hindsight, she was struggling again from Year 5 and I wished we had done more.

She's now 17, and very happy in a selective secondary school. She didn't level out - was top in the entrance exam and has done very well since. So for all the people thinking about this, it's worked brilliantly for us - not just academically but also giving her a social group of kids more like her.

Other things I would suggest.

Firstly, if you can get her maths and reading age tested by the school (or someone else) it really helps persuade them. DD was tested by the ed psych (first school were convinced that she had a problem, rather than that she was bored). Knowing that she had a reading age of 11 in year 1, meant they couldn't not see the issue.

Secondly, if you can send resources in, it really helps. We used Life of Fred books for both English and maths - they are designed to be used by homeschooled kids on their own so she could work through it and then talk to the teachers about what she was doing. But there are loads of other options.

We did focus on other things - everything from Brownies to art clubs to ballet - but those didn't solve the boredom in school time. Then - would be much harder now - we could take her out of school one day a week to do forest school which was brilliant for her.

[pootleq5]

I was considered very ‘bright’ at school, basically I learnt to hide it , sometimes I still do it now , it’s so much easier socially to pretend you don’t understand something than to end up as the ‘explainer’ . The person up thread who said that constantly having to explain things to your peers alters the social relationships is absolutely right .

That said I don’t think moving out of year is a good idea , there is a huge difference between an 12 year and a 10 year old and it gets worse by 14 and 16 . Generally stretching sideways is best and yes building resilience and social skills , in the end we want our children to have rich and fulfilling lives and on the whole that doesn't come from academic achievement alone. So major on the whole child, music , drama , sport , dance, languages , team skills the qualifications should be the by product not the purpose of the education system. Sadly for my own dc we had to go down the independent route to do this but there are many good state schools who do successfully achieve this . Shop around . At primary level I would definitely go larger rather than small as there is more chance of a similar peer group.

[MusicMum80s]

@lemonsandlimesx

School isn't just about academic learning though is it.
I often find the more able kids are quite rude, as they think they know better and because they complete their school work quickly, they don't have to follow school rules and expectations.
Keep encouraging your DD at home.
Get her into after school clubs.
Encourage her socially.
This whole narrative about school just being for academic learning, really baffles me.

How can a child be bored. Maths and English aren't the only subjects. PE, dance, science experiments, quiet reading, art, history, DT investigations etc etc.

It's just a ridiculous notion to say she's bored. She may complete the work early, but not all learning is about that. Creativity and investigating and making also has an impact. PE lessons are not just about jumping on the spot 20 times to see who is the quickest...

English and Math lessons dominate primary school learning. The average child needs up to 6 repetitions to understand a concept whereas an advanced child needs 1-2. Spending so a large portion of the day on repetition and on work that is too easy is boring. Its not anyone's opinion either-- its well documented in research that this leads to boredom that then can lead to disengagement at around ages 7-8. The first manifestation can often be misbehaviour...

[namechangefanx]

@MusicMum80s
I actually agree with @lemonsandlimesx - there may be well documented research on advanced children's boredom but it's never really dominated DD's school life as there's so much more to school than just English and maths. With English it's generally a little easier to please them as they can be as creative as they like and she's really enjoyed that freedom. In maths, she's been trying to come up with new formulae or ways of reaching the answers rather than what school teaches you, so she's turned round school maths from learning into a creative subject. Learning wise she has a university student as a tutor who can work at her own level and she loves her lessons.

But at the end of the day each parent has their own ideas on what school should provide their kids. In our state school I am aware they are overstretched with budget and workload so I'be not kicked up a fuss about it. We've found a senior school that would be a perfect fit for our DD and know she will thrive there.

[Pippu]

My DS1 was like this. Village school with 2 year groups so in Y1,Y3 and Y5 he could accelerate and in the other years he was bored. It worried me at the time but we did extension work at home and widened the topics.
He was also a little emotionally immature so skipping a year might not have been good for him. (DH skipped a year so had some insight into that).

In hindsight it all worked out fine. He got top grades in GCSEs, A levels and a 1st at Oxbridge so academically it didn't harm him being bored. I might have felt different if his behaviour had been affected.