ridiculous pressure on high achievers.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Just want the opportunity to rant please, without it appearing like a stealth boast, which it really isnt.
dd is in year 10. Target all a*s. Only now this doesnt seem to be good enough for some of her teachers who are putting pressure on her to aim for 100%

she has a mfl speaking thing soon. Dropped 3 marks on her last one. Her teacher has told her she should be aiming for full marks. Its batty! If she makes a single mistake she will have 'failed' their expectation. Its across several subjects and yes, she is bright, but she is a human who makes mistakes like we all do.

How on earth do I handle it? We've spent much of her life trying to rid her of the idea that she needs to be perfect and weve suddenly reached this.

[Hakluyt]

One of the many reasons selective schools are a bad idea. What you need is a big mix of abilities/skills/talents/gifts/challenges/strengths/weaknesses.....because that's what life's like.

[samsonagonistes]

I'd love to meet a school that selected like that, rotary, the students would be awesome (although I imagine that they could wear the teachers out...)

[rotaryairer]

If a school selected on IQ, creativity, critical thinking and analysis, DS would be in. If a school selected on 11+, SATS, spelling and maths, he would be out!

[LotusLight]

Ditto. If the whole school is just the top 10% by IQ or whatever then the whole school is geared towards the brighter pupils. Even there you get some genius types (my daughter was at a top 3 school for A levels) but it's easier for that type of school to deal with those children than a mixed ability school.

I also agree that perfectionists often don't do that well actually. When I was interviewed for a series about successful women the interviewer said she found in each case we were all able to say - we have done enough at work and at home and were satisfied ("satisficers") so could get on with the next task rather than spending 10 times more than is needed on one task and getting behind with the rest. That does not mean we do not try to get things right. Trouble is children can take this to extremes. My children might be aiming to pass an exam so 1 mark over the pass mark might be sufficient, in their view which is not always that great an attitude unless I suppose genuinely you only need to have "passed" that particular one.

[Mistigri]

rotaryairer that's exactly the sort of thing I mean - your son is right of course because even setting aside cultural practices, cataracts involve a biological process which results in a change of eye colour, and they are caused partly by environmental factors.

I've seen this type of "error" rather frequently, where bright children introduce unexpected (but correct) nuances into their answer. Some teachers handle this better than others. And it's one reason why multiple choice is a terrible way of assessing more able children.

[Eastpoint]

Are there other pupils achieving similar marks? My DS is at a school where higher achievers spend about 30% of their lessons on non-curriculum work, eg French poetry, cartoons, books etc. The exam requirements are only what is necessary to receive an A*, they are not what is needed to have an in depth understanding of the subject.

[TheWordFactory]

I believe that perfectionism is the enemy of success.

I also believe that the issue for DC at the top of the ability curve is usually resources.

Whether a student gets 98% or 100 is nothing to do with teacher targets or school league tables.

It's to do with teachers being spread too thinly and having no time, energy or resources for the outliers. Especially if they are tiny in number.

That's one reason I wanted super selective education for my DS. I wanted a critical mass of like ability peers so that the lessons are geared around them and resources are available routinely.

[rotaryairer]

Mistigri

"Quite aside from that, marking schemes are very often counterintuitive and even erroneous, resulting in marks being lost for answers that are unexpected, but not objectively wrong."

DS lost a mark in his science when he said that eye colour, like hair colour, can be genetic or environmental (he was thinking David Bowie, tattooed eyes and eye damage).

He's dyslexic so perfectionism simply cannot be an issue for him. Being underestimated (targets too low) is his problem but then that's another post....

[Mistigri]

Why should everyone aim for 100%?

Children should be encouraged to do their best, within reason - bearing in mind that to err is human, and that teachers have a responsibility for the psychological health of their students as well as their intellectual development.

Plus, uptight kids who never take risks because they are afraid of making mistakes are not maximizing their personal or intellectual potential.

Quite aside from that, marking schemes are very often counterintuitive and even erroneous, resulting in marks being lost for answers that are unexpected, but not objectively wrong.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

and I will do so :) For me the most important thing by far is that dd comes out as a happy well adjusted person. It doesnt really matter if she doesnt fill her potential in every area - and in her best area, though its been a bit of a muddle along the way, she has been fully differentiated and thrived. I want her to leave as a confident young woman, who has friends and who likes herself too.

in the mean time dd has persuaded the teacher we would most like to see into seeing us at the parents evening.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Emotional well being comes below exam results for OFSTED! However, it does tend to be important for schools and teachers, which is why we have encouraged the OP to talk to someone at the school.

[morethanpotatoprints]

She should aim for 100% though, everybody should.
The pressure comes if they are bullied into doing more or feeling rubbish if they don't achieve it.
I don't agree with targets though, so I guess I'm not the best person to answer this.

[howabout]

I just wanted to say that if I have an issue I want to address at parents' night regarding my able and progressing dd it is probably not to do with her meeting expectations or being enriched. It is far more likely to be about whether she is happy and thriving as a person - this might be connected to how she perceives she is being pushed as in the case of the Op or might be a concern regarding interactions with her peers.

In terms of her long term prospects and ability to meet A level expectations for the school I think these are valid concerns. Also emotional well-being of pupils is definitely a part of my dds schools' Ofsted inspection.

The way I read the Op I understood that like me she was at least as concerned about her dd as a person rather than an academic being.

[MsDragons]

We have a layer of enrichment in our school too, but the current year 9 are the last cohort to have it available, the school budget can't stretch that far any more Its a real shame. Dd1 has never had any provision over and above being in top set in her school.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I also view this from the perspectives both of a parent and a teacher. I'm pretty sure I view my son's curriculum experience differently to his teachers, because my focus is solely on him, whereas his teachers balance the needs of another 30 odd students just in his class, plus the overwhelming demands of performance measures, of which I am also only too aware. Progress is very clearly defined for teachers. As I said earlier, a very able student in my school does have a layer of enrichment over and above the standard curriculum, built into the timetable. But it is a luxury in straitened times in Education, and while we are judged on the provision we make for our most able, the overriding judgement comes from exam results.

[MsDragons]

I'm having a similar issue with dd1. She's also in year 10 and predicted all A. In exam week they did last year's GCSE papers and she got A in everything except RE, so with a year to go she has no further challenge other than repeated revision of stuff she already knows. I don't think it's the fault of the teachers though, its a problem with the curriculum that isn't designed to cope with outliers from the norm. Lowest achieving pupils are not catered for either

As a teacher I am constantly aware of providing challenge for the very top end, but it is very difficult to stretch the 3/4 pupils at the top at the same time as keeping those at the bottom from tuning out. I can see why some teachers find this a task too far for their own sanity.

[TheWordFactory]

Indeed kitten.
Progress is a slippery concept and can't just be judged on how someone manages the NC.

Asking pupils who are achieving 98% to focus on getting 100% is not meaningful progress.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I suppose we could say that dd and many others lare not making good progress in some subjects as they are reaching the ceiling and not able to move on if only the curriculuum is taught.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

oh, if only her school would emerge from the dark ages! It seems to be school policy not to do things by email. So frustrating!

[Hakluyt]

OYBK- I would email the teachers you particularly want to see.....remember you don't have to tell your dd you've done it..........

[Hakluyt]

It's an interesting reflection on the Mumsnet perception of schools/education- the assumption that the only children making good progress will the be more able ones.......

[TheFallenMadonna]

Not able students howabout. Students who are making good progress. An able student not making good progress would be high on my list of priorities.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

We did wander topic a bit didnt we :) in an ideal universe they would be in classes of about 20 and the teachers would have all of the time they needed. Its not where we are at though. Time just cant be magiced up. It is frustrating though. Dd is going in with my phone number and instructions.

Thats interesting Mumof2yk.

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

Maths degrees at Cambridge are all about a "Merit Mark" where your merit mark is

2* no of marks plus 3 times number of betas plus 7 times number of alphas

You get an alpha if you get 75% of the marks and a beta if you get 50%.

It was well known that a disproportionate number of females got 2.1s whilst males either got 1st, 2.2s or 3rd because females were perfectionists who tried to get the full marks but only got through a tiny number of questions whilst males would move on. (Sometimes too quickly.)

The perfect personality is one who hits he balance nicely between "dabbler" and "perfectionist". Probably true in real life too!