we want to get our son circumsized but don't know if we should. any advise?

[juicychops]

the doctor has tried to advise us not to as it is an unnecessary surgical procedure. My partner is circumsized and we both agree it is much cleaner and hygenic but don't know if we should do it or not. has anyone had their young son circumsized? and advise?

[lunarx]

hey expat ;) -another american here =)

-i was in favour of having our son circumcised, but now, i'm not so certain as he grows, i can't bear the thought of putting him thru that pain. i am really thinking about just leaving well enough alone..
but to each their own,...

[JoolsToo]

Guffaw! - I've heard it all now!

[expatinscotland]

'looks better'.

B/c that is the mian thing. Cosmetic surgery for babies. What'll they think of next?

Btw, the rate of circumcision is now below 60% in the US. Far from practically everyone. I'm American myself.

[NomDePlume]

Circumscision makes for a better lover ?! Surely it's just a case of your DH having better skills in the bedroom than your 'uncut' ex, rather than it being down to a flap of skin ???

I promised myself I'd stay out of this, and now look what's happened....

[Paulapc]

My husband is circumcised and we are both happy that he is. We think it's cleaner, and healthier and looks better. My previous BF was uncut and I think my DH's circumcision makes him a better lover. When our son was born I took him to the doctors to get it done and received a lecture about how it wasn't necessary and we shouldn't do it. It was the same story when his brother was born and in the end we paid and and had them both done privately by a London doctor who does dozens of them. It only took a few minutes and healed very quickly. They were both unfazed by it and seem proud of their 'new' willies. I really don't think it's any big deal and wonder why so many people in the UK are opposed to it. My sister is married to an American and practically every boy out there gets done soon after birth.

[piffle]

haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa fwiw the best sex I have ever had, with dh and previous to him with a delicious aussie guy some many years ago
were both intact
although tee hee how many vibrators have a foreskin?
ooops

[hunkermunker]

Blimey, the things you find when you google...according to one link, uncircumcised penises give greater pleasure to...women!!

Think you can find just about anything on the internet!

[Davros]

I haven't read all of this but I expect I can guess a lot of it anyway. I agree with Jimjams (as always!), I don't understand the big deal. We had DS circumcised because DH is Jewish, I am not but I don't have a willy (at least not the last time I looked). The main reason we did it was for cultural reasons rather than religiouse as DH is not religious (what would he be doing married to me!). It seemed rather flippant to chuck away those centuries of something he knows has happened in his family. We had it done by a Dr in a hospital, it took 5 minutes and DS was fine.

[Jimjams]

what surprises me is how strongly people feel about this. OK I haven't done my sons and I wouldn't, except for medical reasons, but I'm stunned that people feel so strongly about it. I really don't care if other people decide to do it- it's not that bad. Just think there are other more important things to get over-excited about.

[juicychops]

Thanks Pinotmum

[kaansmum]

Twiglet, I am perfectly entitled to express my views in an open forum such as this one. I make no apology for the fact that they make you cross.

This is the beauty of an open forum, it attracts all manner of people with diverse and strongly held views. It should be mentally challenging and stimulating to enter into healthy debate. My views are certainly no more or less valid than yours and are equally as strongly held as yours too.

Why do you need to be so defensive I wonder? If you are happy with the decision you have made why do you even need to come here to justify it. I gather your choice was informed by religious beliefs you hold which are of fundamtental importance to your life and, presumably in your view, to that of your children. I assume on that basis you would have felt duty bound to do it or in some way morally obliged so would have gone ahead and done it regardless of any evidence that it was in any way unnecessary or detrimental. In a way the choice was not yours to make. Surely, the knowledge that you have done it should be spiritually edifying for you so I really can't see what your problem is.

I can see totally that you consider you have made the right decision in circumscising your child/ren. Perhaps you are not really as comfortable with it as you might like us to think you are? Why can you not respect my view that I think it is wrong to take a major decision to mutilate someone else's body without their consent? Please do not be so dismissive of my views simply because they do not concur with your own, or anyone else who may think that circumscision is no big deal.

[Pinotmum]

That's a shame and good luck with your decision, whatever it may be

[juicychops]

No. but its made me realise how strongly opinionated some people are and how many people are against it.

[Pinotmum]

Juicychops, has starting this thread helped you reach a decision?

[juicychops]

Its similar to parents who have their child's ears pinned back when they are young. That involves a surgical procedure but parents get it done because they feel that they are doing whats best for their child. I wish my parents had got my ears pinned back when i was young so that i didn't remember it. I have a 10 week old son and my partner and i have been considering having him circumsized (for our own personal reasons not to be judged by others) before he is old enough to remember it... I started this link to get some advice. Parents want to do what they feel is best for their baby

[Twiglett]

Now that is EXACTLY the kind of post I was talking about

[kaansmum]

I'm sure that circumscising a child will not harm it in the long term - nor will feeding it formula milk (contrary to what hairbrained evangelical breastfeeding earth-mothers might have us believe). Millions, if not billions of babies thoughout the world have been fed formula milk over many many years now have thrived upon it and have grow into healthy, intelligent human beings.

Circumscision comes down to one basic fact for me. No human being has the right to mutilate another human being's body (and be quite clear about the fact that that is what circumscision entails) for their own selfish ends be they religious or otherwise. Our children are NOT our possessions. We are supposed to nuture and care for them and protect them from harm and pain to the best of our abilities until they are able to do that for themselves.

My husband is a Turkish muslim and is himself circumscised. Thankfully, we share the view that our son will not be circumscised unless and until there is a justifiable medical need to do so. If and when this situation arisies it will be done without question.

He will in no way be disadvantaged socially or emotionally by not being circumscised. If when he is old enough to make the decision for himself he expresses a wish to be circumscised we will do all we can to discuss this with him and support HIS own decision to do what he wants with HIS body.

In the meantime he will be taught to clean his penis regularly and thoroughly and will not be any less clean than a boy who has been circumscised.

If you are the sort of person who thinks it is acceptable to circumscise a baby or young child, why not give it a tattoo at the same time? That is something which is equally unnecessary and invasive in my view.

[tamum]

Phew Mwah mwah to you too.

[Twiglett]

Oh God No Tamum .. I'm sorry if you read my post that way, I wasn't even thinking of you when I posted it.

mwah mwah

i should really stay off this thread TBH

[StuartC]

You're right, Twiglett. It's not part of my cultural upbringing and I can't understand it.

[tamum]

Twiglett, I really hope I haven't hurt you. It certainly wasn't my intention, I just couldn't let some of this stuff get posted without disputing it because it's just so dodgy. Sorry

[Twiglett]

From what I've read I'd also dispute the 'health benefits' hence the easy-to-read link in my first post on this subject

However as someone who has had their son circumcised, and doesn't regret it for a moment, it was done with anaesthetic cream and a drop of red wine on the lips at 3 weeks old in our house by a very experienced GP / mohel who did about 3 or 4 of them a week.

I do find a lot of the comments on this thread quite personally damning TBH, some of you by your posts are actually implicitly calling my DH and I abusive. But I am happy to accept that it is very difficult to understand the reasoning behind circumcision if it isn't part of your cultural upbringing.

In the main Mumsnet is a supportive environment, and the vast majority of posters on here who have said things that made me suck in my breath I know would be extremely careful on their choice of words on any other thread. Some of you are the most supportive and caring mumsnetters I know. I am slightly surprised that the same courtesy cannot be extended to this issue, it makes me feel my cultural differences and turns me slightly insular.

[StuartC]

Just ignore the medical experts; ignore the facts about the operations which go wrong; ignore the circumcisions which result in the child's death; ignore the fact that so many American men are attempting restoration; ignore the legal cases being undertaken by men who were operated on as unconsenting children; ignore the medical problems of men whose penis skin tears during intercourse because they were cut "tightly" as an infant.
All of this information is available - links have been provided to it. But you won't see it unless you are prepared to look.

[tamum]

I would definitely dispute the statement "In fact there is some extremely reputable research that says it does have health benefits." Like marthamoo, I have far more sympathy with the idea of circumsizing for religious reasons than for "hygiene" reasons which seem non-existent on the basis of the huge weight of evidence. It's pretty ridiculous to equate religious circumcisions to the use of kitchen knives just to for the sake of a debating point. Twiglett, for one, has already explained that she had a religious/cultural reason and used a mohel/GP, who I very much doubt used a kitchen knife.

[wobblyknicks]

kookool - the evidence that formula feeding is beneficial comes from the millions of babies who couldn't breastfeed for whatever reason but are still alive!!!! Can you produce even one case, or 10, or 100, where someone not being circumsized has threatened their life???