Tamoxifen bus shelter -42

[Gigondas]

Dragging trolley onto new thread.

[MaryAnnSingleton]

T is a bit of a day dreamer- very much in his own world
No Wahaca this time
Hugs for really
Hope kk has made the yoga bus !

[Shootingatpigeons]

kitkat sorry that your boob woke you up, have you got painkillers? Good news that the nasty part of your lump turns out to be so much smaller than thought. Re chemo my Consultant now thinks that for my 1.7 cm grade 3 strongly ER+ lump with one lymph node involved they would probably now have moved straight to hormone therapy, even 12 years ago they were advising me that chemo would have a small only impact on my chances of survival, and was a matter of choice, given the short and long term risks, remember chemotherapy drugs are ironically some of the few proven carcinogens. If one lymph node had not been involved they would not have recommended it. Since then the hospital, the Royal Marsden, have done quite a few trials that show that for ER+ tumours the key thing is the hormone therapy, that the benefit of chemo for me mostly came down to inducing menopause. When my friend had a recurrence in a lymph node in her neck, she was referred straight to their hormone therapy specialists, chemo was not presented as an option. I know that it is easier not to be faced with a dilemma but I personally prefer not to feel at the mercy of the subjective part of my Doctors' judgement (and there is often a lag between research and that being influenced). If you do feel left with a difficult choice I can give you the details of my Consultant or someone else on the BC team at the Marsden for a second opinion, they have pioneered this increasing awareness of the importance of hormone therapy for ER+ tumours, and the need to tailor treatment to different types of tumour. I found my team were only too pleased for me to seek second opinions, though always suspected that other doctors rarely disagree with your first opinion. However Dr Geek loves a chance to quote statistics ......

ruby sounds like a heavy week next week, will be holding your hand. I hope the GP can help today, perhaps you need stronger ABs.

gigs I noticed there was a whole Katie magazine on the newsstand at the motorway services on Monday, we should have bought a copy for the trolley . Big pigeons and I thought it probably had as much substance as the Baby George commemoration special next to it, about a paragraph of known facts and hundreds of sycophantic speculation.

DH was threatening all manner of pies and tarts last night, and to enter GBBO and Masterchef..... Actually I am not sure he would have done worse than some of those pies. I actually found everyone but Howard, bless, he is as a lamb to the slaughter, and Kimberley irritating last night, but especially Christine. She should have been sacked just for the sheer arrogance of saying, after her soggy pie she has baked weekly for hundreds of years, that "at this rate I may be at risk of going home" as if she has a right to be there, mainly because of the granny's are good at baking stereotype...... Ruby was back to Keira Knightly lip biting.

[Shootingatpigeons]

X posted. mas jealous of your literary salon. These anniversaries are good to tick off, especially when it is going swimmingly.

really nothing wrong with feeling sorry for yourself, the expectation that Cancer patients should be positive can be a tyranny and you do not need that on top of everything else you have to deal with. Actually it is shit and unfair. It is a misconception that feeling positive helps you survive Cancer, studies show that it makes no difference and denial or giving in to your emotions are just as good as coping mechanisms. As indeed is humour.

[malteserzz]

Morning all
Didn't sleep too badly but kids gone off to school so I've sneaked back to bed for a bit, getting to be a habit !

Mas enjoy tonight sounds fun and glad you're doing so well a year after your diagnosis

Kitkat sorry you didn't sleep well hope you get some rest today

Pigeons good luck with dhs pies and tarts look forward to seeing the pics !

Really sorry you feel down have you got any plans today ? If not tv, tea and cake always helps

Gigs I use that cushion a lot it's lovely , something very strange went on with KPs baby, she was so cagey about the dates, then to take all of your family abroad near your due date and end up giving birth where nobody spoke any English. Very fishy
Not heard any more about PAs baby but you'd think as a doctor Emily would have had a bit more sense, they seem a strange couple

Morning everyone else hope everyone has a nice day

[Gigondas]

I knew you would be up on the latest baby news- it was all a bit odd the giving birth abroad bit. Also she has changed as not touting pics of it.

[smee]

Silently applauding MAS for her anniversary. Is it really a whole year? I think some virtual might be in order later?? x

Sorry your arm's sore, Malt. Ibuprofen is what I used. Are your vein's looking okay? Mine went black and I was told to instantly go and get them checked for infection, so keep an eye on them. Yuk..

That pain from inflation's a sod, Kitkat. Mine usually eased quite quickly, so hope yours does too. With your chemo choice (if you have to make one!), you could ask for stats. Onc told me chemo gave 15% increased chance against recurrence. Still went for it. Wonder what your lot will say now that you've already had some.

Reallyworried, could you curl up and watch a box set of something. That might help with the blues. Don't be too hard on yourself, it would be weird if you were skipping around. We'd have to throw you off the thread.

Hope the GP is good today, Ruby. xx

Right had better get on. Waving to all. Be back later.

[kitkat1967]

Hi really - yes just woken up and feel much better. Am well dosed up on painkillers so will get up soon (maybe). I'm guessing this will only last a day or 2.

[malteserzz]

Thanks smee I'll keep an eye on my veins they look ok so far

Kitkat glad you're feeling a bit better, don't rush to get up ! I've also just woken up for the 2nd time!

Gigs just googled and apparently she brought the baby home last week but all very hush hush

[MaryAnnSingleton]

pigeons you are right about baking grandma -very irritating.

[kitkat1967]

Thanks for that info pigeons - I was always told that chemo was the least relevant part of my treatment and that was when they thought the cancerous part was 6cm!!! Mine is a very un-aggressive grade 2 (clear nodes) so onc did say before Op that depending what they find the 3 chemo cycles that i've already had may be sufficient. Anyway should get an answer tomorrow.
I'm going ask when I see onc but suspect mine is 8/8 for ER+. Will also get the sizes of the cancerous spots.

[kitkat1967]

smee 15% is a lot - I suspect I will be told no difference or an extra % or so.

[smee]

I thought 15% was significant too Kitkat, but my team still told me to think about it. Only surprising thing for me was like my cancer twin Pigeons, was told the hormone therapy and Rads far more important in my case. Hope they say no difference tomorrow, as that means no decision needed from you. Sounds like your lot are good at talking it through, so I'd bet you'll get some sensible thoughts from them. Tomorrow's not too long to wait.

[Shootingatpigeons]

kitkat I was told 10% but also presented with the short and long term risks of chemo, which I saw in terms of a decision to buy time with my young children possibly at the expense of the long term. I was also told those were out of date statistics not yet fully incorporating the impact of hormonal therapies, and now Dr Geek is saying that that benefit probably arises from being thrown into menopause. In fact Dr Geek had some stats which showed that when ER+ patients were treated in the same way as others, with just surgery and chemo they did far worse than others, even those who were Her 2 + (pre Herceptin) especially if chemo did not induce menopause. Those were the stats underlying the increasing scepticism about chemo for ER+ patients. I am sure though your team will be able to share up to date statistics. I hope it is clear cut.

Re GBBO I also think that Frances reminds me of that actress who always plays deranged women, in The Crimson Petal and the White and The White Queen www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/features/article_1700901.php/The-Crimson-Petal-and-the-White-Pictures Her thing with style over substance doesn't help.....

[kitkat1967]

mmmm interesting Pigeons - it sounds like I may escape a second bout of chemo then. In my case the chemo i have had so far is not bringing on the menopause in any way (I'm 45) - in fact quite the reverse has happened as I have a mirena coil so normally no periods but had 3 during chemo so far (coil still in so I find that quite mysterious).

[malteserzz]

I've never asked about statistics I can't deal with it at all they just told me from the start I would need chemo

Freezing here today, I'm under a blanket seems too early to put the heating on

[GoodbyeRubyTuesday]

malt try something warm for post chemo arm. I always found one of those wheat bags or a hot water bottle really helped. I had it on pretty much constantly for days after chemo as aching would start up again as soon as it cooled down. I hope it gets better soon as it's a horrid pain isn't it.

Waiting for a GP appointment, hopefully this afternoon. Oddly I indulged in some singing earlier (my sister is going on holiday to Austria and I've been singing Sound of Music songs to wind her up ) and that made it feel better, I would've expected it to hurt

gigs I shall be holding your hand very tightly for your appointment. My lady is lovely too :) hopefully by the time the little gigs are old enough to worry, testing and treatment will have got the bugger completely under control. Enjoy your trip to town and lunch.

Waving to everyone x

[reallyreallyworried]

Thanks for the hugs and support! Special thanks to smee who threatened to throw me off the thread you made me smile for the first time in a while!

I know I am being silly and that I am allowed to feel scared, and angry and all the other things I am feeling. It's just I promised myself that I wouldn't let this stop me being the positive, strong person that I have fought to be for most of my adult life.

I was finally starting to get my life back, and beginning to enjoy living. Then 'this' happened. So I promised myself that I would take everyday as it comes, and I wouldn't let this take over my life. But that's totally stupid, because right now it is my life. It's stopping me working and sleeping! Two fairly big things! I am thinking non stop about 'what if's' and right now I can't see a positive in anything. Which I HATE!

I think my biggest problem is knowing that I have the pending appointment with the surgeon, to tell me the results of the lump and nodes they removed, and where I go from here. I am hoping that once I know what is happening I will be able to calm down a bit, and start getting back to semi normal. People keep asking me how I am doing and how I feel about everything, and I just find myself saying I'm okay?! I'm not sure why I say that, because inside my head I am saying, I am scared, and want all this to be one bad dream which I will wake up from soon.

Thank goodness for this thread, I feel I can say anything to all of you. I hope that sometime soon, I might be able to write some positive posts, instead of just moaning and groaning all the time. I apologise for being so annoyingly whingy! Promise I am trying to cheer up! I'm not normally this miserable! At least I hope I'm not.

Hope everyone else has a good day. Think I will curl up with a blanket in front of the tv. Xxxx

[Shootingatpigeons]

really Giving you a big virtual hug. I too kept up a front for public consumption whilst struggling inside, and in the quiet alone moments, especially at 4am, it was really that if I couldn't cope with my own emotions I certainly didn't want to have to deal with other people's. The downside is that even now people keep telling me how "brave" I was, which totally misses the point that Cancer is something that happens to everyone brave or wimp I am the latter, miserable or upbeat, positive or negative, and it isn't a competition to be "brave" "fight" or whatever. Those of us lucky enough to be still here are here because of the treatments that just happened to work for our Cancer, and even the doctors don't know which ones those are. Ruby did a great Facebook thing on those lines that I just hope is still going. I had a great group of friends who went through treatment with me and we shared our deepest fears and worries and also laughed our way through Cancer. The reason I stay on here, aside from loving this bunch of nutters is that I really want other women to have the benefit of that sort of support. Feel free to offload, and laugh!

The period leading up to results is the worst, and yes once you have certainty you will have the space to come to terms with what you face and also a chance to get on with it. Feeling you are doing something is great therapy, uncertainty is the opposite and allows paranoia to creep in, hence the paranoia box, because we are all a little bit paranoid about Cancer, it is hard to trust your body again. At the moment I have it in my hip (tight flexors) lungs (a bit of a cough that is almost certainly an allergy as worst when amidst pollen and dust) and toes, (where fell on slippy floor in Mexico and hasn't gone down yet).

Topsy has a word for the semi normal, the new normal.

One emotion I did crack early on was the whys and what ifs, that is all in the past, you can't know because noone does (95% of breast cancer risk remains unexplained, most of the explained risk is the known genes) and you can't change it.

[Shootingatpigeons]

Malt I think whether you want to be told or want to know all the statistics and have a say in the decision making is an entirely personal thing. It is like the p word, for some of us being told to be positive and brave is patronising and an added burden but for some people it clearly gives them a focus that helps them cope, like the other p word, pink .

Equally I think coping with a Cancer diagnosis and suddenly having to become a statistician and acquire the medical knowledge about BC that exceeds that of most GPs is also an unnecessary burden. However for some of us it is a way of keeping control, plus I have known far too many medics and seen them in advance stages of inebriation ( the most traumatic scene I have ever encountered, bodies and vomit everywhere, was at St Thomas's, after the Rugby Club dinner) to see them as omnipotent omnicogniescent (I know that isn't actually a word but it is one of my better dyslexic concoctions, up there with Little pigeon's bounceline) beings. Apparently according to Dr Geek there are even statistical studies that show that giving women a chance to have some say and control over the decision making improves outcomes

[Lilymaid]

Just saying hello to all. Had another CT scan this morning and will see Breast Surgeon tomorrow and Oncologist on Friday, so a lot of to and fro to the hospital.
I hope Picture is feeling better today (I'm still carrying the weight of guilt etc around for having suggested to her that port insertion was a nice easy procedure).

[malteserzz]

Hi lily good luck for your appointments, I'm sure picture doesn't blame you personally :)

Pigeons at some stage I will take my head out of the sand and face it but at the moment I'm just concentrating on getting through it, looking at 5 year survival rates doesn't reassure me at all I don't want 5 years I want another 30

Really you're doing fine dont worry about being negative I was the most miserable person ever when I first came on this thread. Say whatever you feel and I guarantee someone else will have felt the same. Did you have a tv day ? I watched this morning, 4 weddings and now watching a programme about boys at harrow. It's cold and rainy and I'm knackered so don't feel guilty !

Ruby the hot water bottle is helping lol at the singing is that why it's raining ?

[Shootingatpigeons]

Ah Malt but that is when statistics become your friend and counteract the paranoia. They put a stick in the sand at five years because five years after treatment you become statistically less likely to die of Breast Cancer than the average woman. Once you have five years under the belt you will more than likely die of something else........ That was when my Consultant started stressing about my heart disease risk, in fact related to a cheese sandwich just before the blood tests but that is another story

lily good luck for you appointments. I agree that I am sure picture doesn't blame you. We can only feedback our experiences and I am sure picture's was extraordinary, hope you are recovering picture

[notJenkins]

Hello all it is safe for me to read the thread now I have caught up on GBBO. I am loving this one and find Ruby very irritating but I think they all fancy her. I may be developing a PH crush again but that is purely due to my delicate mental state at the moment. I will recover soon.

I am pretty miserable and panicky about our house move / sale etc. we are doing it as we are broke and it is expensive soI am not sure we will be able to eat for the next few months. If I need more treatment it will be a complete disaster.

Feeling pretty rubbish today so resting and trying not to look at scary solicitors letters.

Sorry to moan. What can I watch to amuse myself ? I find it hard as my hands and small muscles ache I can do stuff like baking / gardening to keep me occupied. The hounds have pushed me off the sofa too.

[malteserzz]

Thanks pigeons

NotJ I'm sorry things are tough i hope the house move goes smoothly. Can't advise on tv viewing as my taste is shocking. Hugs.

Just read on another thread that Emins funeral is at 230 tomorrow, I'm sure we will all be thinking of her at that time and sending her family love and peace x

[KurriKurri]

Afternoon all, - managed to get to yoga, but because I was early I went for a coffee at the university cafe (sports centre is part of the uni complex) ts a campus uni and I got hopelessly lost - couldn't get my bearings at all - everywhere looked the same. Also it has lots of dark and uninviting stairways and under stair dark corners - really quite scary at night I would think - presumably designed by a man.

I'm off to yoga again this evening - new class has started in the village - and I have a yoga class tomorrow morning - I shall be all yoga-ed out (or possibly tied in a knot)

NJ - good luck with all the house stuff - I know moving house is extremely stressful, which you don't need at the moment. What sort of thing do you like watching? There's a newish freeview channel (freeview 20) called 'Drama' which in amongst endless reruns of birds of a feather, has some quite good things on it - period dramas etc.

Lily - good luck with appts - hope all goes well xx

Catching up with posts - and having to dash off to cook things - so posting will be sporadic!