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Lumbar disc problems, constant pain. Where next?

136 replies

PavlovtheCat · 06/02/2013 21:23

Yes it's me. For those are wondering who is. It's a looooooong woeful tale of misery and pain brought about by degenerating L5/S1 vertebral disc.

So, medically this is where I am:

Had second spinal pathway (assessment point) appt with 'clinical senior physiotherapist' who works with the neurosurgeons. He agreed weakness of foot flexor on left leg, and some muscle weakness/atrophy in the calf, along with numbness and not being able to get anywhere near tippy toes on that foot, agreed that indeed things have probably got worse and that indications are the nerve is trapped/damaged (either or both) (yes, probably happened when I was told to do 'cobra' with force x 10, 4 times a day despite not being able to stand straight due to back not liking it - literally as soon as I was forced 'upright' the nerve pain shifted from right leg to left leg and BADLY). He also said he suspects I have an unstable spine, and that if disctectomy was not required, spinal fusion is very likely the best option now (different from Aug 2012)

MRI at the end of December. Results show 'indications of disc bulge that warrants discussion with neurosurgeon' and a letter was sent to say that this, along with evidence of planter flexor weakness, and some other jargon, the neurosurgeon has 'kindly' agreed to see me. YEY! I got this letter mid January, fabulous, not long now!

12-15wks wait. 4 months. To just have a chat with the guy. But, hey ho, at least I am on the waiting list now. And at least I am having a good run, with good positive thinking to push the pain to the back of my mind and I was walking straight so it seemed I was doing well, last 'episode' was over christmas, but recovered well. Yes, the odd few days where it 'goes' but I am learning to manage those episodes with carefully planned rest/medication/exercise contigency. Except, NO.

About two weeks ago it 'went' again. Really. Fucking. Badly. I should have gone to hospital due to level of pain, but in fact, I was at home on my own with two children one of which was poorly (another story). Goodness knows how I managed it. But I did. It took until sunday this week (10 days?) to stop the muscle spasms, which were going higher and higher. I was physically unable to stand straight, not just due to pain, but the back refused to go that way. Like before. So, I did the cobra exercises. Just 4 of them.

And now, the worst possible pain imaginable down through from my back (but not there particularly) down deep in my left buttock, hip, thigh, calf, right into my foot. It feels like something is going to snap. The pain when I take a step is agony, and although I can straighten, I can do that AND walk. My leg has to be bent outwards a bit when I walk and I can't put pressure on it.

And my back keeps 'buckling'. If I knock into something it gives way. If I twist wrong it gives way. I stood up from the chair yesterday without thinking, so did it normally, how I used to, not slowly, and as soon as I got to the almost standing position - BAMM! pain and collasped back into the chair as my back gave out.

I CANNOT live like this any more. The pain is unbearable and my meds are not touching it. It is now keeping me awake at night, I can't find any position with no pain. I have tried so hard. SO FUCKING HARD! to get on with life. How can I make it through like this until April or May? And then god knows how long before any surgery? My life is fucked. It is taking it's toll on every single aspect of my life - my relationship is at rock bottom, although luckily we love each other enough to recognise we need to make some changes, and that we want to and are talking about things now my work, well, I am hardly there, next to useless when I am. I will very likely lose my job at some point this year, certainly decrease my salary as I go onto half pay. Let's not talk about my children, they are rocks, but, even DD is feeling it now.

So. Apologies for the extraordinarily long rant to get to the point. But, where next medically? My GP has referred me to pain clinic (there is a waiting list of a month or so) I have no idea why they didn't do this before, I have asked, but heyho. And I have been given pregabalin. I have been given this before, but didnt take it as I am scared. I have tried amytriptiline and gabapentin and both turned me into a zombie-like person, I could not function. Although amytriptiline worked well in terms of nerve pain relief. GP gave me a lower dose and I took the first dose this evening. What else can I do?

If I go to the hospital, will they be able to give me steroid injection into my spine to numb it? God I so want to do that. Go to hospital, have some fucking powerful drugs and be left to sleep for a few days with no pain. Then I can get up and get on with it again.

How the Heck do I get through the next few months when I can barely get myself up and dressed in the morning, let alone have any life? Any techniques for coping (don't say counselling...).

The prospect of 8mths plus before surgery and then 3 months recovery. I am not going to be anywhere near normality for another YEAR! presuming of course surgery is suitable.

Sorry. I am sure you are not going to get this far. But if you do, fucking well done you!

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denialandpanic · 10/02/2013 11:01

no no no to chiro just no.

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LostInWales · 10/02/2013 11:46

What denial said Grin

I had acupuncture with my physio, I don't know if it made any difference, hard to tell because I was just getting used to the tramadol then but I can tick it off my 'things I've tried list'. Stopped with the physio for now though as he felt there wasn't anything more he could do until my pain levels were better controlled, so here I am, lying on my electric blanket, waiting for the appointment.Wink

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PavlovtheCat · 10/02/2013 13:36

ok, no chiropracty then! Grin

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PavlovtheCat · 11/02/2013 17:20

ok, so I am going to be cheeky and link my blog.

I am hoping at some point to have some guest bloggers coming along with some advice, or experiences they might want to share, so if you want to be part of my blog let me know as you all have a lot to share. There are no prizes for grammar, spelling, bookselling type prose, so it doesn't matter if you are not Caitlin Moran. My own writing is appalling, so don't hope for fame if you chose to post!

I went silent on my blog through this last episode, completely and utterly silent as it was just so hideous. And I sort of regret that, as, it was a key to my changing pain levels and episodes. I might write a retrospective post from some of our chats.

wine can't cure back pain

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PavlovtheCat · 11/02/2013 17:21

(and if you have your own blog, please let me know so I can link to it in my posts, as you are all so supportive)

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MissEleanorLavish · 11/02/2013 23:14

world sounds like you were in a great place pre op which I thinks always helps. My surgeon was v keen I was up and about ASAP after the op (they had me up walking a few steps a couple of hours after) and I've found Pilates to be fantastic (my gentle but great teacher has helped me avoid the brain blowing pain of the past) but I'm not quite back to it yet.

pavlov I've not heard great things about Chiro either I'm afraid, although some people do swear by it. The doctors I have spoken to were all a bit wary, and I've certainly preferred to be more active in my treatment, rather than passive (that way if it hurts, I know to stop, rather than have to tell someone to if that makes sense).

And I was totally against having surgery and wanted to desperately avoid it at all costs, but when I knew it was inevitable I was much calmer (and only cried to DH and my mum!).

Off to check out your blog now:)

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PavlovtheCat · 12/02/2013 09:08

eleanor I am like that, active in my treatment which is also why I have been so reluctant to take the nerve blocking meds such as pregabalin, as they mask much of the symptoms of nerve pain, and that bothers me that it's all done for me, and then I will push myself too far. I remind myself when things hurt that this is because my body is telling me there is a problem and if I hide that, how will I know? But, right now I have given in and started taking the pregabalin as I simply cannot bear the leg pain any more.

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sb6699 · 12/02/2013 10:16

My dh is now almost 2 years post op and he suffered for 3 years before anything was done.

Before I carry on, can I just reiterate the resounding no to a chiropractor!

Dh had been referred for every type of non-surgical pain relief, accupuncture, pain clinic, reflexology, etc and nothing worked. We eventually forked out privately for a chiro who as soon as he put his hands on dh immediately stopped and said there was something wrong with the discs and he could actually paralyse dh if he carried on! Luckily enough the guy we saw recognised the problem but imagine he hadn't!

The chiro wrote a letter to dhs gp basically diagnosing him. By this time the gp he had been seeing had left and we saw a doctor who was far more pro-active. He immediately referred dh for surgery and within a fortnight had seen the consultant and was on the waiting list.

The target time for the op to be carried out was 19 weeks (i think) and when we hadn't heard anything dh basically started to pester the consultant. Soon after we received a letter from a private hospital saying that the nhs were paying for his op to be carried out there because he had waited too long.

Basically, I think what I'm saying is if you feel your gp is being dismissive then demand to see a different one and don't be afraid to let all of the doctors/consultants involved know exactly how youre feeling. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry otherwise.

On the bright side, looking at dh now you would never know anything had ever been wrong. He is back at work doing a physically demanding job and has nothing other than a slight "tightness" every now and again.

Hope things improve for you soon.

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PavlovtheCat · 12/02/2013 10:32

sb oh thank you for that, really useful to know that I need to be more pushy. Both my GPs are telling me that I am 'nice' and 'conscientious' and don't complain unless I am really in pain, so they now know I am really in pain, but, nice as that is, it means I am not being pushy enough! I am going to call the neuro team in a minute to see if the spinal pathway guy has emailed as promised and insist on them hurrying it up.

Problem is, I am not even on a waiting list for surgery yet, this appt is only for the 'chat' about whether it is possible/likely to happen. Then I have to wait all over again for any surgery if it happens! It's just so slow.

But, it is reassuring to keep hearing the positive stories of those who have returned to almost normality afterwards, I really hope that happens to me!

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sb6699 · 12/02/2013 11:25

Oh, it will sweetie. I know its difficult when you are in So much pain, but Be pushy and assertive and if need be find a new gp.

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MissEleanorLavish · 12/02/2013 12:38

No harm in taking the kick ass drugs - I found amiltriptyline really helped me (I know you've not found it suits you) so was on that for 3 months after my first big flare up. I could function ok in the day, as long as I took it early enough in the evening (I took mine at 6pm, any later and I couldn't get up until noon!)

We paid to see the consultant too - it was the best couple of hundred pounds spent as then I was in the system. Don't know if that's an option?

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PavlovtheCat · 12/02/2013 13:00

eleanor the amytriptiline (I spell that differently every time!) was fab as nerve blocker, I just had numb patches and little pain. I just couldn't function, I pretty much lost my appetite, it bunged me up, I couldn't get up in the morning even if I took it early. And, mostly, my peripheral vision was shot so I couldn't drive! That was what did it for me, not being able to drive was the final nail.

So, I am hoping the pregabalin being 'cleaner' according to the gp will help.

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PavlovtheCat · 12/02/2013 13:03

Unfortunately, it's really not an option to pay to see the neurosurgeon early, about to go down to half pay at work due to sickness levels reaching the end of full pay, and even if I get back to work next week, it's only a matter of time before I get another lapse.

However, I do have a DLA claim going in this week, which will be backdated a few weeks if I am entitled to anything. If I do get it awarded, I will use that money to pay for quicker appt.

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MissEleanorLavish · 12/02/2013 19:52

Crikey - that drug (the one i cant spell:-/) really didn't agree with you! How's the pregabalin? Any better?

Hope the dla claim goes ok & fingers crossed you'll have your appointment before then anyway. Any luck with the neuro team today? And how are you feeling?

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PavlovtheCat · 12/02/2013 20:24

eleanor yes, it did a number on me and I gave it a good 5wks to settle down on it! Well, the pregabalin is not too bad, but I am taking slow release tramadol with it, and that makes me wired at night, so it seems the two are counting each other out. I feel droopy eyed and a little 'drugged' on it, but, I am on the tiniest amount possible! 25mg at night only. Because I also struggled with horrendous side effects with gabapentin on a low dose, and thus the doc thinks I am overly sensitive so is starting me on 25mg. My other GP gave me 50mg twice a day and I was not happy about taking it. This GP knows I am scared of the side effects! It means though that I doubt I will see any huge changes in pain levels any time soon as I know it's going to need titrating upwards.

My pain levels have plateaued out for the most part. My back is stiff and sore. My leg pain varies between reasonable (5/10) and severe (7-8/10). I am finding lying down is actually the worst position to be in, unless curled up in a ball, which is not usual for me. If I lay down, basically my inner thigh right by my groin goes numb and so does most of my foot, not the tingling numb I have had pretty much constantly, but properly numb like when you lay on your arm so it goes dead. Same with standing straight upright, I am slightly stooped as, as soon as I straighten the same thing happens, as well as increased pain in my buttock, hip and thigh, numbness increases majorly. It is like I can actually feel the nerve being trapped. Funnily the pain sort of 'snaps' or 'goes' like my back does when I move without thinking. It catches my breath and makes me gasp out loud.

So I called neurosurgery today and the person I need to speak to is the neurosurgeon's secretary, and guess what? she is on annual leave until next week. The person who was going to try and get it expedited would have, apparantly sent the email to her directly and no-one has access to her emails in her absence. There is nothing on my notes to suggest that I have been expedited (I am guessing that is the word for being bumped up the list) or that an email has been received by any other person, and so please can I can I call back on Monday afternoon once she has had a chance to check her emails? (in a professional and polite way - Do One Love).

I also called the central unit dealing with my pain clinic referral as someone was meant to call me back yesterday and they didn't. And they shut for training today at 11am and so can I please call back tomorrow or leave a number to be contacted on when they are available to return my call?

Not much luck on the medical contacts front. Oh well, tomorrow. it's not like I am working or anything

I have upped my pain meds, well I say that, the tramadol. I have been trying to reduce it as, well I don't like it, and for no real reason that I am dependent on it and hate being dependent on any drugs where I can't just stop them. So I had reduced down to just 50mg (splitting the capsule. Bad Me) and taking codeine sparingly. but, I just cannot do it like that any more. The tramadol is not really helping the pain very much, but it's making me care significantly less and improves my mood Grin. So back to 200mg (100 x 2 daily) plus 50mg as required on top up to 400mg (not done that yet though, as that will properly wire me).

I am just going to have to succumb to the meds again.

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chocolatelime · 13/02/2013 12:22

Have been following this thread & I am sorry to read that you have had so much pain. The juggling of the drugs is just such a nightmare, so hard to get right. We too have a cupboard full of the things and still DH's pain can be intolerable. Tens machine has been helpful, and a scary cocktail of medication is essential.

We are about to take another step on this journey and DH is having a microdiscectomy tomorrow. The success rate is 85% and if you are in the unsuccessful 15%, you can then can go on to have some form of nerve stimulation therapy in the future (not sure what this entails, hopefully it will not be necessary)

We really feel we have tried everything from pilates, physio, osteopaths, acupuncture, swimming, epidurals, nerve block injections etc etc. Nothing has been successful and the pain has only increased since the beginning of the year.

We have gone private to speed things up and luckily had the insurance to enable us to do so. However, the NHS waiting list in our area is actually not too long, around 8 weeks. In the end, it was a very supportive GP who realised that DH could not go on like this any longer and the referral was made. Things have moved very fast since then.

I am hoping that this is the right course of action for us, but really we were in the situation where there was no choice any more. Will report back in a few days time & will hopefully have a positive update!

I hope that you get somewhere with the Pain Clinic - they were really very helpful for us and advised on changes in medication management as well as 2 epidurals and also an x-ray guided nerve block injection. None of these worked for DH but apparantly they can make a big difference in some cases.

We are certainly apprehensive for tomorrow, but very hopeful that everything will work out OK.

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PavlovtheCat · 13/02/2013 12:52

chocolate oh good luck to your DH! I have heard that microdisctecomy has an even better/quicker recovery rate than the normal surgical procedure. It certainly sounds like it is the best thing to do, if everything else has been tried then what else can be done? I will keep him in my thoughts tomorrow and please wish him my very best.

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PavlovtheCat · 13/02/2013 13:32

12 FUCKING WEEKS! at least for pain clinic appt. and, have been told that the neurosurgery estimate of 12-15wks is very optimistic.

Apologies for my Shouty Swearing. But I am annoyed.

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denialandpanic · 13/02/2013 15:29

Sad I was afraid of that Angry

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Fishandjam · 13/02/2013 15:43

Hi Pavlov. Have just quickly read this thread. I had a herniated/perforated L5/S1 disc in 2010, and got it operated on in 2011. Luckily I had private health cover via my employer, so was able to get diagnosis and op v v quickly. But prior to that the NHS had diagnosed me with tendonitis and had given me physiotherapy...

The op sorted me out miraculously. I still get a bit of sciatica and I currently also have a bit of sacro-iliac joint fuckedupness (pregnancy related!) But it's nothing in comparison.

Is it at all an option for you to go private? Even just for a consultation and a talk through of the options?

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MissEleanorLavish · 13/02/2013 17:14

You cannot wait for 12-15 weeks with pain levels at 5/10 on a good day and symptoms of numbness in the inner thigh and some tingling in the genitals, you just can't - all of that points to serious nerve compression. Who can you call?

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PavlovtheCat · 13/02/2013 17:23

eleanor yes, indeed, that is where I am flummoxed. I don't really know where to go. 5/10 is ok really! I can manage on that, not great that I need to, but yes, numbness continues, continues to bother me, and nothing being done. I think, the best option is, wait for pain to increase to above 8 again, then A&E. I can't see any other way now.

denial I know, I was warned! I was just being hopeful, and actually hearing it threw me, especially being told it would be even longer than I thought for consultant appt.

fish sorry you have sacroilliac pain issues, that is not a great pain either is it? Sad Private is, I suspect going to have to be an option for consultation appt. DH and I are going to have to look at finances, and I am going to have to convince DD that baked beans are nice Wink. I mean, if it has to be done, and there is no choice, we will do it.

How bloody crap that people even have to pay privately, to see the same bloody person that they would see in 4 months on the NHS.

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PavlovtheCat · 13/02/2013 21:13

ok, pain in leg has increased majorly. Back is ok, tender, fragile, but just normal 'recovering from a lapse' type pain. my hip and leg, fucking hell it hurts. When I walk it feels like my hip is going to snap, also feels like it is going to snap around my ankle, or rather like it is being strangled. I can't explain it any other way. It's not an electric shooting pain, it feels like something is squeezing my calf and ankle. My calf is throbbing, and right this second I am laying down and the entire calf feels like it is on fire, esp at the back of it, as well as feeling numb at the same time. My foot is also throbbing, pins and needles and numb in places at the same time and then the pain continues into my knee, then stops between my knee and my inner thigh by the groin, where it has gone numb again, just a small patch, but it all feels linked. and the numbness, it comes and goes in waves like nausea.

It's not cramp. It's a different type of pain.

I cannot make the pain go away or reduce in any position and it is making me feel sick. Feels like the pain chemicals have gone straight into my brain, probably makes no sense whatsoever. Hip/buttock pain when laying flat is ok, but when I move to the side, it is agony. I wondered it I have pulled some muscles or something?

Surely this isn't sciatica but something else? it hurts so much right now. I have only taken my normal tramadol and am not sure whether to take another tramadol. I think I am going to have to (rather than codiene).

Could it be do you think, something like DVT because I have not been moving so much? I am worried because there is little back pain to go with it, although it does feel all linked to my back, hard to explain that either.

Fuck. DH is at work. And I don't have clean jimjams on. I will have to sort that out...

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chocolatelime · 13/02/2013 22:07

Hi Pavlov, thank you for your good wishes. What a terrible time you seem to be having. It is hard to describe in words quite how bad it can get. Sounds exactly like the type of sciatic pain that DH has been suffering from. He said that sometimes he just wants to chop his own leg off it gets so bad. Wakes him up at night, feels like foot, calf and thigh are on fire alongside numbness and pins & needles. He cannot get any relief even when he is taking 7 different types of pain killers.

Please go back to your GP, you cannot wait 4 months for a pain clinic appointment. We initially had to wait for 8 weeks to get the pain clinic appt, but DH was not suffering like he has been over the past few months.

I am hoping that surgery is going to bring the answer that we are seeking, but only time will tell.

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Fishandjam · 13/02/2013 22:09

Sounds like severe nerve pain to me, especially the "on fire" bit and the squeezing. Are you able to take NSAIDs? I found diclofenac moderately helpful.

Sounds like you're going through the mill - I wish I could do something more useful than just offer internet hugs! (If you have any genital or buttock/anal numbness, I guess you know to go straight to A&E?)

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