Chemist tested me for diabetes - sent me to the Dr TODAY urgently...please come and talk to me...

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

These are my questions

1: The reading the chemist got was 20 - can anyone tell me what this means (ie how 'serious' it is) and if they think it could be controlled and/or preferably gotten rid of through diet and exercise.

2: What will the Dr do today.

The rest is whittering background.

Also, I just wanted to say that I'll have to go in about an hour and wont be able to get back on line until tomorrow afternoon, but I haven't done a runner and will be grateful for any help/advice.

[I'm a regular - I've namechanged because I'm not sure yet if I want to tell anyone or not and I have a few RL friends on MN. It's not that I mind people knowing as such it's just that I don't want it to turn into A Big Deal]

I have been wondering for quite some time if I might have diabetes. A few things have made me wonder about it such as

• Excessive thirst (always having to have a bottle of water on me)
  

• Eyes a bit blurry at night (been blaming the overhead light and the small tv screen with tivo bright red background and only a problem at night and spending too much time looking at screens)
  

• Occasional 'shakes'
  

• I am overweight and struggle with feeling like my 'blood sugars' aren't right
  

...but what made me 'man up' to getting tested was that last week & yesterday I had a couple of episodes of light headedness/feeling faint when doing things such as changing a lightbulb, I had also been having them in the shower, but put that down to it being hot/steamy etc

I called the chemist about a year ago to see if they did the tests, but ended up not going

I also went to my Dr about 3-4 years ago with constant tiredness and no real reason for it.... he put it down to my weight (which although I'm overweight was not stopping me doing anything, being reasonably fit etc), he really wasn't interested in looking further. I haven't been back, but am and have been pretty much constantly tired since before then. I know I should have seen another Dr but it's hard when you are overweight and they don't seem interested in seeing past that and accept their might be something other excess weight causing the problem.

I wonder now how long I might have had it for and thus how much damage I might have done already to my body, especially my eyes, that's pretty scary.

I was already overweight, but I was pretty fit - then something quite lifechanging happened and I've put on more weight, stopped exercising and I am not unfit. I'm certainly not can't move off the couch unfit - I could still easily walk 4 miles, run for the bus (i'd be panting but I could do it and would recover pretty quickly) - but something else I've noticed (just yesterday I really 'thought' about it) is that I have been putting off doing stuff like walking places (now I take the car), running up the stairs (now only ever walk), kicking the ball about with the kids etc and I realised yesterday it's because when I do I feel awful - not just tired/worn out but light headed and a bit pukey - it's been a gradual thing.

I am totally committed to exercising - a minimum of 30 minutes every day without fail (have just been for an hours walk - about 3 miles) and to improving my diet (which I fully accept hasn't been great for a while, since this 'thing' happened and for a wee bit before then).

I'm not looking for any magic cure - I just want to know if I can get rid of the diabetes through diet and exercise.

Thank you if you made it this far - or even if you didn't wade through it all but can help.

[Mynewmoniker]

I do without as much carbs as I can get away with OP. I follow the advice from the diabetes forums and sooooooo many say avoid the NHS 'healthy diet' way. I'm not medically trained and this is not advice but it's working for me.

I'll PM you my 'handle' if you want so that you can have a look at my particular experience since November if you want.

[pootlebug]

I would recommend this book Which is written by a doctor who specialises in diabetes and who is also a diabetic (though type 1). It has a lot of info on both type 1 and type 2 and why he recommends a low carb diet for both. The downside is that the specific meal plans he suggests are crap...but there is so much info on low-carb diets now if you search paleo, primal etc that you should be able to find a better source for those bits.

DH is type 1 and switched to low carb about 4 months ago after reading this. It has made a significant difference as to how well controlled (I.e. not stupidly high or too low) his blood sugar is.

[SauvignonBlanche]

I read this the other day. You'd need to discuss it with the experts.

[Mynewmoniker]

Have a look on the diabetes forums with regard to the Newcastle Diet Sauv. Some were concerned about so few calories and the impact afterwards.

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

Screamin :) Do you think you might be diabetic?

MyNew - I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. My dilemma is whether I tell the nurse that or not, or just nod a lot and do my own thing without discussing it. She wasn't exactly warm & chatty today and I felt very judged, which was quite upsetting after my apt with the Dr last week - I wish I was just seeing her tbh. The nurse is their 'diabetes' nurse, so I can't just choose another one :( If you could PM me your handle that would be great - thanks! :)

InAFlap - I have ordered the 'Think like a pancreas' book, hopefully it will be here by the weekend.

Pootle - have you read ^ ? If you have, do you think it's worth getting both. I could do without spending another £20 tbh, but if it's worth it I will of course. That's great about your DH. I've read loads today and my head is about to explode!

Sauvignon - I read that a couple of days ago, it's really interesting isn't it. I'm going to read up on it as much as I can because I think it's well worth a go. Judging by today's handouts, I'll be doing it unsupported (by the nurse) though. I don't drink much at all these days, but your name always makes me quite fancy a though :) but that's a particularly bad idea right now!

[Whippoorwhill]

My MIL is easily controlling her diabetes, med free, with a low carb diet. Her Doctor says he is not allowed to recommend it to people but he cannot fault how well a properly followed low carb diet brings blood sugar down to normal levels.

I would strongly suggest that you get hold of this book. www.diabetes-book.com/ It is fascinating and has proved invaluable.

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

Whippoorwhill (are you an Oklamhoma fan?) I'm unsurprised about the Dr, there is so much wrong with our health system and the restrictions and incentives given to Drs :(

Do you happen to know what your MIL's blood levels were when she found out she had diabetes and is she overweight?

That's the same book Pootle recommended! :) Looks like I'll need to buy that too. I ordered the 'Think like a pancreas' one recommended earlier in the thread. There are so many of them it's hard to know which to buy (with limited funds else I'd buy them all and probably confuse myself further).

[BIWI]

Myhead - I'm sorry to read all your woes on this thread! I've hesitated about posting several times, because I'm not a medic, but I can't read any more without posting! I'm a low carber, for weight/general health reasons, rather than because I have diabetes. But over the last few months I've read a lot about low carbing and how it can work for diabetics.

you might find this blog interesting

Unfortunately, the advice given to diabetics seems to be, as you have already come to realise, directly contradictory. The 'conventional' advice is lots of carbs. My dad is a type 2 diabetic, who now has to inject insulin, as his sugar levels were spiralling out of control. Yet he is still told to eat his carbs ...

Re food/cooking, whilst the Bootcamp threads on MN are about weight loss, there is also a fab recipe thread which might inspire you!

[butterfingerz]

I might go for a diabetes test after reading this. Im 28, a normal weight, could do with more exercise but just have various symptoms that I put down to various separate things but could be symptoms of diabetes and its never crossed my mind. Though my paternal gm died of complications of type 2 diabetes but she was in her 70s.

I've suffered with dry itchy eyes, headaches, thirst and frequent weeing but only at night, nerve pain in arms and hands, chest pains and crippling tiredness after eating, thinning hair. The thinning hair did make me think low thyroid or that its postpartum but ds is 18 months now and still losing hair. Guess there's only one way to find out!

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

BIWI - Hi :) Thanks for posting and for the links, I'll go and read them in a minute. Your Bootcamp thread was already on my mind to have a look at!

It's a shame your Dad is locked into the NHS thinking - I think for many people older than us, Drs are often still 'Gods' and going against their advice is Just Not Done :(

Fortunately I don't think of them as Gods and have no issue with going against their outdated recommendations!

Butter - You should go. Whatever is causing all of that is best caught sooner rather than later. I wish I'd gone sooner instead of burying my head in the sand, but, tbh - after my bereavement I just wasn't up to it, I didn't care really... I wish I'd had the Dr I have now - I would have gone :( Let us know when you have made the apt OK.

[BIWI]

Reminds me of the old joke:

Q: What's the difference between God and a doctor?
A: God doesn't think he's a doctor

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

Definitely

[Whippoorwhill]

MyHead, not an Oklahoma fan. It's a H P Lovecraft reference. I can't even remember the thread that started it now but the name stuck. :)

Her blood level was really high, something like 33 I think. She went straight on the diet that the nurse gave her (low fat, high fibre) and the next time they tested it was about 25. She was prescribed Metformin which brought it down a bit more. Meanwhile I did a lot of reading and put all of us on a low carb diet. I'm over-weight and my husband was fat and pre-diabetic. Since the end of February MIL has lost 3 stone and her fasting bloods were done this week and it was 4.5. Finger prick 2 hours after meals is generally giving 5 or 6, occasionally 7 if the food was slightly more carby. Blood pressure and cholesterol are both normal, having been high previously.

I've lost 3 stone, husband lost 4 stone, his blood sugar is now fine and sleep apnea has gone.

The Low Carb Bootcamp is fab. Lots of support if you do go down the low carb route.

[pootlebug]

I haven't read 'think like a pancreas'. Though I have just ordered it! It sounds From the reviews that it covers quite different stuff to the Bernstein book

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

Whippoorwhill - that's brilliant :) You are all doing really really well! Very, very impressive! I spent last night and this morning reading the bootcamp threads, I started on the first one... so I've a way to go!

I have to see the nurse this afternoon, I don't know whether to accept the metformin or whether to say I want to try with diet/exercise/weight loss first? I'm going to go and read about (metformin) now. How long was your MIL on Metformin for and were there any issues about coming off of it?

I'm keen to low carb rather than the std high starchy carbs/low fat regime most nurses on the NHS seem to promote, but I'm not sure I want to or should get into ketosis.

Is your MIL in ketosis or has she just lowered her carbs?

Pootle - I heard a big thump on the hallway rug, hoped it was my book - but it was just junk mail :(

[Mynewmoniker]

How did you get on with the nurse MyHead? I hope you give it some!

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

MNM - thanks for asking :) Hmm well....

She agrees with me that I've probably had it for years :( and quite possibly since my liver problem or before - so we're looking at 20 plus years. It would have been nice if just one of the Drs I've seen in the last 20 years would have tested me for diabetes when I was almost crying with exhaustion. Sigh. I've asked in the past to be tested for anything and everything that could be causing the tiredness, lethargy, itchy/dry eyes - they were taking blood anyway, why not test for diabetes??

My thyroid is OK apparently - 2.1 - though when I looked that up, I couldn't see what it related to?? Any ideas??

My liver results are mostly OK - one of the readings is a little bit out (ALT at 57), but we didn't really talk about it.

My kidney results from the blood test were 'OK', but my urine test wasn't back. I have no idea which was testing what, so not sure which results we don't have - or what difference they'll make. I'll see if I can find out if they are back later on as well.

My blood pressure was high 170/100. I had it done twice last week and it was OK... on the high side of normal, but still OK. I didn't write down what it was though, so I can't remember. I need to go next week and put my arm in their machine and it will log it on my file.

My cholesterol is 5.6 which she said if I didn't have diabetes would be fine, but as I do she wanted me on statins - I said that I didn't want to take them. She said I should as I have high indicators for stroke, heart attacks etc but that she can't make me. I said we'd review it when I do my next lot of tests and will reconsider then. I have read a lot about cholesterol & statins and the side effects of statins. I'm not convinced they're a good idea. But I will look into it properly next time if my cholesterol isn't low enough.

[I just don't trust the medical profession to 'get it right' and so prefer to make my own decisions - rightly or wrongly?!]


My average BGL was 9.8

My fasting sugar was 10.9

My BMI is high - I already knew what it was - I'm not under any illusion that I'm in great shape.

She has started me off on 2 x 500mg of Metformin. (1 with breakfast and 1 with dinner) - she doesn't think it will be enough, but needs to start low.

I'm still not sure whether to take them or not? I am very tempted not to take them, to re-do the bloods in 3 months and see how they are. See how much of an effect I can have on them with exercise, diet & weight loss.

Any thoughts anyone???

I asked her about self testing and she said not to. She said I should make the most of not needing to. She said that weight was the determining factor of diabetes, not diet. She said that it was pointless to check BG after eating various things as it doesn't tell you anything. We discussed oats/porridge and she said it's highly recommended for diabetics - I said that it doesn't work for everyone and lots of people have bg spikes after eating it. She just sighed a bit and said to see the dietician. Low sugar, low fat, high fibre as per the NHS booklet!! No discussion to be had.

Next dietician apt is the 20th of February!! I'm glad I don't actually care what she says I only agreed to see her so that they feel I'm doing everything I can/they suggest.

She (the nurse) said I need to stop eating pies, cakes, sausage rolls etc - now, having pointed out that I don't actually eat any of those things twice yesterday and once today - I think I can safely say she a) doesn't listen b) thinks obesity causes diabetes - end of.

She checked my feet and was totally happy with them.

She has referred me for an eye test - this probably wont happen for a couple/few weeks.

I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the results. When I lived overseas it was never a problem and I have all the copies of the bloods I did when I had the liver problem. In the UK they seem far more keen to keep you in the dark and treat you like an infant :(

I hope all that makes sense, I don't have the strength to proof it now

[BIWI]

Blimey!



Why don't you try a couple of weeks of Bootcamp, without any meds, and see what happens? A sort of compromise? If key markers/scores don't improve, then maybe that's the time to go for the Metformin?

(Obviously I'm not a medic, etc, etc - but it doesn't sound like you're very keen on immediate 'intervention' via drugs)

I don't understand why she should be worried about your cholesterol levels - and there's a lot of controversy about cholesterol as well. Again, it's worth reading the stuff that Dr Briffa has written on his blog about it (as well as statins), if you haven't already.

[BIWI]

An interesting piece on cholesterol by Zoe Harcombe

[BIWI]

And another one, with a free-to-download report

[LayMizzRarb]

Slightly concerned that you're considering not taking the metformin that has been prescribed.
I would err on the side of caution and take the medical advice that you have been given by someone who is qualified, has plenty of experience, and knows your medical history, Rather than self medicate, based on information you have read on the Internet. Blogs and advice on MN and other forums can be helpful, but people writing on them are generally not medically qualified. Diabetes is a chronic illness and can be manged perfectly with the help of medical professionals. You wouldn't look to cure heart trouble/cancer/kidney disease based on information you read on the Internet. Diabetes is no different.
Would you let a group of strangers in the pub convince you to go against a doctors advice?

[Whippoorwhill]

Urgh, that sounds like a frustrating visit. I'm seconding BIWI. Try low carbing for a few weeks and see how you get on. The side effects of Metformin are quite extreme. My MIL had sudden and urgent diarrhoea after a dose as her main side effect, to the point that she couldn't really leave the house. She also felt unbelievably tired and achey and was struggling to walk up the hill to the house. She stopped taking them after two weeks when it was clear that the diet was working great.

I did ask her if she had any advice she wanted to pass on and she says ignore them when they tell you not to test. You need to know how food affects you as everyone is different. If you don't have a needle phobia and can afford it then get a test meter. The first one she had was this one. www.amazon.co.uk/Codefree-Glucose-Monitor-Monitoring-Testing/dp/B0068JAJFS?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 She has since badgered her doctor to prescribe one.

She is also refusing statins. There seems to be no evidence that they do anything but harm if you are a woman.

I'm rushing this a bit as I'm supposed to have left already, I will try and get some proper links later but check out Dr Briffa, Gary Taubes and the Mark's Daily Apple websites and keep reading the Bootcamp stuff. There is some fantastic info in there.

Good luck.

[Whippoorwhill]

You've probably seen this site already. www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/index.php?nomobile=1&sid=54cf2683461a74f744b33570fcd5b0d8

[Mynewmoniker]

*"Would you let a group of strangers in the pub convince you to go against a doctors advice? "

Yes I would, as Drs aren't God. They do get things wrong or have a financial agenda.

I am not medically trained but neither am I an idiot. My gut instinct has served me well.

[MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot]

Andreas Eenfeldt