Calling shovetheholly and other gardeners! Help!

[SkodaLabia]

I have a very weirdly shaped garden. I've posted about it before but since then it's got weirder thanks to the discovery of a second patio under a deck that we recently removed.
I'm at a loss as to how to work with the shape. It's short and wide and faces due West.

I really want more privacy, and anything that could help to minimise the noise from a busy road, but at the moment dealing with the shape has me defeated!

[shovetheholly]

One thing I do like about the long lawn facing that way is that it's rather grand and expansive!!

[SkodaLabia]

Bless, the garden's so small I'm not sure it could be either of those things!

Yes, I get what you mean about me liking the less formal garden. What did you think of my pic with more of a square lawn?

Your most recent pic is basically what it is now, and the wonky angles drive me mad, but maybe they'd be better covered once there's loads of planting. However, as you say, that lawn layout gives the least planting space of everything.

I'm sure I'm running out of picture allowance, but I did see a nice photo somewhere of a circular lawn sort of discoverable amongst shrubs. Will see if I can find it.

[shovetheholly]

Oops, they just deleted my whole post!

In summary, it said

• Don't put your washing line too close to the path or you will be slapped in the face with wet towels
  
• The trouble with a rectilinear layout is that it may accentuate the wonky lines. However, this might be mitigated if you allow a dense bed that is deeply planted and ensure the wall is completely covered with green (this does remarkable things to your sense of space). However, it might be less risky just to go with more acute angles that work with the wonkiness rather than against it (shapes that are strong on the diagonal may be more useful than squares and circles)
  
• remember you may not need a path around a lawn as the lawn can be a path
  
• I think your back bed needs to be deep, whatever the design.
  

Here's the rectilinear plan, but I think an ellipse/triangle layout might work better...

[shovetheholly]

Oh, and the most important thing - the one thing I would say about your trees/higher stuff is - think about where your sun is and where shade from them will be thrown. I suspect, from what you've said about where the sun falls that the compass points may not be bang on 90 degrees to your plan. If you want to sit outside on your patio area on a warm summer evening and soak up some light, then planting a tree in front of it on a west-facing aspect may not be ideal! (If, alternatively, you think a bit of shade might just be lovely, go right ahead!)"

[SkodaLabia]

Ooh, will play around with a triangular lawn.

Here's that nice circle lawn.

[shovetheholly]

I do like a circular lawn - I have one! I think if you were to go for that, it would be strongest if you kept it as the sole central feature and built up deep beds around it, if you see what I mean? If you start adding lots of complex paths, it gets a bit messy (a flaw with my original sketch I'm afraid)

To do that, it'd need to be smaller than in my original sketch too - I think I had it a bit big!

[SkodaLabia]

Nike swoosh meets space rocket.

Yes, I agree, much as I love the idea of the winding path, maybe that's over-complicating things.

[shovetheholly]

Ha! The trouble with that is everyone will assume you're a trekkie calling for help from Starfleet!

(In my first garden I did a lawn in the shape of a quotation mark. Then realised it looked like I was advertising Vodafone).

[SkodaLabia]

Oh god, you're right!

Love your Vodafone lawn, that reminds of that story (urban myth?) about the German POWs held in Britain who were given gardening duties and planted bulbs in the shape of swastikas.

I'm going back to basics on this today. I have to crack it as I only have this week to get it done. It's so tricky when you're dealing with height difference from the house AND a short wide garden.

I can't help feeling the most interesting bit is the shady corner, whack a silver birch in there with some beautiful woodland underplanting and it would be lovely, but then everything interesting is on the left! Argh!

I definitely don't mind shading the patio with dappled shade, we cluster under an umbrella anyway as we all find sitting in the sun uncomfortable.

I shall report back with the solution. Thanks so much for all the help you've given.

[shovetheholly]

I love a shade garden (am north-facing) so of course I agree with you about the beauty of it!

I think you need some kind of focal point in that right hand corner. From what you've said, it's the sunniest part of your garden? And it's the direction you are looking in from the patio window. Something that draws the eye and makes use of that diagonal line will be useful. I slightly wonder about something like a water feature or a miniature pond - you can get raised ones where they are like an ornamental bowl, which are lovely - surrounded by some sun-loving herbaceous plants in a defined colour scheme. If you had moving water, it would have a sound, and that might also help with traffic noise.

I would definitely urge you to get out a tape measure and draw out the garden on graph paper. Sketches are great for ideas, but when it comes to planning actual spaces they can be disastrous - it's easy to over or underestimate the space you have, and that leads to things becoming uncomfortable. Alternatively, if your space is too awkward, mark out on the ground where you want things to go and then you can 'walk' through your new garden and check there's enough space.

[AstrantiaMajor]

I love this thread. The other thing is that, you don't have to plant it all at once. You could plant up the big things now and leave the rest in pots.
As the year progresses you will see gaps appearing or things getting wider than you anticipated. If you make mistake it is easier to dig up and move the smaller stuff. Having said that I am amazed at how resiliant my plants has been, even ones that was left with roots exposed In December seems to have survived.

[SkodaLabia]

The top right is the sunniest corner at mid day, but goes into shade again at about 2 by which time the patio is getting sunny. I think that might be to do with not having any houses the other side of the wall on the left.

A water feature would be lovely but don't think I can afford it. I'm desperate to get the planting finished, we've lived with his awful garden for 3 years and this summer I want to enjoy it.

I'm glad you're enjoying this thread Astrantia, I'm feeling it's very me, me, me.

Yes, will measure properly. Have a look at this though. I think could have solved a few issues:

1)There is a focal point top right (if I move the cherry there, it's more spreading than the rowan and I can make a little area in front for a nice chair and little table, or a bench.

2) the lawn is more in the sunnier part of the garden

3) if I use a tall shrub above the patio I'll get that feeling of jungly height that I like without it being a tree that may feel too big for the garden. (Although I'm still hankering after a birch there, I ❤️ them).

4) this gives me deeper beds. I did some measuring this morning and there would be nothing less than a metre.

If you think this would work I could do with some planting advice to stop it looking bitty. Was thinking shady grasses top left and sunny grasses bottom right could help it feel unified. I love verbena so if I put those through all but the shadiest bits that could also help I guess.

I want to edge the lawn to help with mowing, thinking of those half cut log things you get on a roll. Would you also edge the paths in this scenario, or would that look too fussy?

[JT05]

Hi, I've been following this thread, although not posting because shove is offering such good advice.
I too like the jungley feeling and am trying to create it in my large courtyard.
I have bamboo in pots around the edge, to hide the neighbours small, ugly portion of fence. I've put a fatsia in a pot, hoping it gets huge! In September I bought two olive trees, had you thought of them?
I was also wondering if buddlia in a pot would grow quickly and give you a jungle effect.
Lastly, beware of getting a silver birch that would grow too large, we had 6 in our last garden and caused viewers concern when we came to sell.

[SkodaLabia]

Another jungle lover!

We have pretty strong winds here, so I can't do bananas, unfortunately, they'd be torn to shreds. I have a couple of large pots with bamboo in them, and also have a fatsia, but I'm also going to try a mimosa and a pink silk tree, to get a bit of height.

Olive trees are so expensive to get one of a decent size. I'm thinking of trying to grow fuschia as trees. This is my all time favourite garden pic, I want my patio to look like this.

Any tips for a jungly climber for round my patio trellis? It's only waist height so I don't need to worry about it obscuring the view, but I'm keen to get greenery in where I can.

My tip for a fab jungly evergreen shrub is Melianthus Major, it's a bonkers looking thing, like something out of Jurassic Park. I'd do my whole garden in the tropical style but nothing with any height of that type can cope with strong winds without tearing (except if you consider Cordyline as tropical, I consider it more Torquay).

[SkodaLabia]

I want to live in this garden centre. www.architecturalplants.com/

[shovetheholly]

JT - please don't be put off by the volume of my posting! I feel guilty that skoda isn't getting the benefit of the range of opinions I know this forum can offer. There is a LOT wrong with every design I've done and it would be good to have other input to correct some of those mistakes! (I'm not touchy about it, honest!!)

skoda - I think one piece of advice that Monty Don repeatedly gives on that show you watched is this: Keep. It. Simple. One theme, chose with the site in mind and followed through, tends to work better than lots of different ideas, which inevitably dissolve into something that looks messier. If you like jungle planting, really GO for that idea whole-heartedly. I've only just realised that it's a thread through everything you've written - I would have guessed earlier had I looked more carefully at the things you've already bought. You have the tetrapanax already - which is just an amazing thing, and you seem to light up with genuine enthusiasm for the wonderful range of leaves and forms that you get with jungle planting! So if that's what you love, really GO for it and ditch the white birches and English cottage garden plants to replace them with rather more exotic-looking things!

I don't think you need to be all Chelsea Flower Show strict about the botanical 'rules' of it - I see no reason not to have two plants from two different places next to each other in a garden if you happen to like the contrast, but do keep the theme intact. If you go for jungle AND grassland or prairie in separate sections, there is a real risk it will look odd because the style of planting is so utterly different.

Climbers for your trellis - trachylospermum jasminoides, or clematis armandii will give you evergreen leafage, the latter is the more jungly of the two, it really does look exotic and will ramble all over the place. You might get away with an abutilon if it's sheltered from frost and sunny - that would give you a real exotic 'hit'!

Aldi tend to have smallish olive trees (often standards) in late spring! However, I'd say they are more mediterranean plants than jungly ones. That shouldn't stop you if you love them, though!

[AstrantiaMajor]

You are absolutely allowed to be me, me, me. When I was doing my garden last year the help on here was great and really influenced my decisions. I was trying to create a woodland walk in my tiny urban garden. Dreams bigger than my garden and budget. Two bits of advice that really helped me from Shove, BookBook Christina and others was to look at Piet Oudolf for planting with grasses. I wanted continuity in the garden, lots of trees but low maintenance underplanting. I was advised to look at hedgerow plants.

Not sure if this will help you but this is what I bought for underplanting my trees.
Mexican Feather Grass, Peacock Grass and Stipa Tenuissima
Sanguisorba, Valerian, Achellia, Veronica, Acatea and Astrantia.
I also managed to pick up 3 Hollies for £3 each from Wilkinsons and some Berberis for £2.

[JT05]

A good way to get expensive plants cheap is to search the reduced section in the DIY stores, they rarely look after the more demanding plants.

I got a palm, looked dead, for 10p a couple of years back. It revived and is pretty big now. It's still in its winter shroud at the moment and I was not popular when I said it had to move house with us!

[SkodaLabia]

Does the basic shape of the new design work, do you think?

I suppose the reason I'm mixing styles is the need for height (hence having bought the cherry and the rowan, I know they will grow here), and also the mix of sun and shade that I have.

I have a load of blue agapanthus that a friend is getting rid of, if I went for those scattered around, got rid of the prairie type grasses (can find a home for those in the front garden, fear not) and kept my planting of the more waxy green variety would that work? With the only landscaping material bark chips?

Would the rowan and the cherry look they'd been parachuted in by a loon?

Sorry to be such hard work, I feel all at sea with my choices.

[SkodaLabia]

I was looking at the clematis armandii a few mins ago, great!

[SkodaLabia]

Astrantia, that list is really helpful, thank you. I think what I will do is put everything that is from a dry country into the front garden, and keep the back garden more verdant.

Can I ask a really basic question? If the shape is okay, and I've decided I'm most excited by tropical planting, should I be aiming for plants that suit both shady and sunny position? The aim being that both sides of the garden look unified? Am I right in thinking that with a small garden like this it's best to have a few different types of plants, rather than having lots of different ones?

[SkodaLabia]

This is interesting, a gardener called James Mattoon who combines Mediterranean with tropical. It might be too confused for my small space but I guess it shows perhaps a few of my existing plants could stay!

And in this last pic which is a different garden it looks like there's something like a purple cherry hanging about at the back.

This is raising my spirits.

[AstrantiaMajor]

It is personal choice but I think that is easier on the eye and more restful to look at, with similar planting.I really like your plant choices and the shape of the lawn. I know the odd shape is hard but think of it as quirky. My garden is a perfect rectangle which is really quite boring . They way you have designed the odd corner is great.

You can punch it up with a few statement pieces here and there. I was so tempted by all the wonderful flowering cherries for my new garden because I absolutely love them. I resisted, telling myself to wait one more year then buy one. I now realise they would have been out of place in my minds eye of what I was trying to create. However another gardener might come in and think 'what this garden really needs is a flowering cherry or six"

Like you I went through a lot of angst before I settled on what I wanted. Now you have decided on your verdant jungle you will find it much easier to make your choices.Right at the very last minute I ditched about 30 plants that i had been hanging onto. I had a lightbulb moment of clarity, that I was bring my old garden into the new one. So they had to go.

[AstrantiaMajor]

Previously
decision day
gone