apprenticeship vs college

[Fifi04]

Hi,
My son has GCSEs in May. He should pass 4-5 of them and he wants to go to college to become an electrician. I encourage him to try apprenticeship. Am I doing it right? earlier he wanted apprenticeship and now he changed his mind. On the Internet there are general differences that are known to everyone, but I still don't know what is better for him? It seems that he may not be the best student ;-) but he is in group 3 out of 8, so he is above average and has a chance of passing a few GCSEs. He is also conscientious and tries his best, but as a boy he is hyperactive. I'm simply asking for help because I don't understand, for example, why everyone praises apprenticeship if the child only goes to school one day a week? After all, this is no education! and at a college where I think you can get into it without GCSE, the child is at school 4 or 5 days a week! So it seems that college is better for education after all! Can a child continue his/her education after college and what level does he/she reach? On the other hand, if you want to earn £5/hour on appreticeship, maybe it's better to go to college to get qualifications and then pay for your education yourself?
Regards

[Needmorelego]

You sound confused about what an apprenticeship is. It's a form of education. Learning on the job plus a day at college (and getting paid for it).
If he is only doing 5 GCSEs then is it because he isn't very academic? Surely hands on learning would be better. If he went to college full time but wanted to still become an electrician he would still need to learn on the job. It would just be taking him 2 years longer to do it (those 2 years at college).
I personally would pick apprenticeship if I was him.

[Needmorelego]

@Fifi04 also you usually can't get into college without GCSEs. You only can if you are re-taking them which usually means an extra year at college (so you attend for 3 years).
(also you call it "school" and "college" in the same sentence like they are the same thing but they are different)

[Fifi04]

maybe I called it wrong;-) 6th form is for children who want to learn. college and courses are for children who... - that's my understanding - don't like learning. and my son is in the middle. He learns a little, tries, fights ;-) but he has something else in his head. I actually think that going to college for a course is a waste of 2 years if you then want to go back to studying - is that correct? but it has a course! For an electrical apprentice ship, which he wants to do, he only needs to pass 4 GCSE.

[Needmorelego]

If he definitely wants to be an electrician then he could go to college for 2 years and gain the qualifications there and then get a job where he would be a beginner in the trade so would still need to learn some bits on the job.
With an apprenticeship he is learning on the job and getting the qualifications from day one.
Colleges are definitely not for those who "don't like learning" because they offer so many different levels and qualifications.
That's a strange view to have.

[Needmorelego]

What do you mean by "going back to studying" after college? At college you spend 2 (or 3) years studying 🤔

[weebarra]

I'm in Scotland and I know the system is a bit different in England, but colleges here tend to be more for vocational courses rather academic ones. I would say it's a bit simplistic to say for young people who don't want to learn, they're just often more practical.
For an apprenticeship, you get a job with an employer and they receive funding to train your young person, as well as sending them to college - either one day a week or block release, which is more like one week a month. Your young person would be working with the employer at the times they weren't at college.

[LIZS]

If he is only going to pass 4 or 5 gcse he is definitely not above average nationally. Most schools timetable 8 or more subjects at gcse. That may be the minimum entry requirement for a level 3 course at college and those achieving less take a level 2 with maths and English gcse if they have not passed those. Apprenticeships are a mix of practical and theory, with a day or more in college studying for the relevant qualification with them earning for the hours they work.

[Fifi04]

well, once again: children who want to learn go to 6th form. Children who don't like learning - don't pass GCSE - go where...? My son is in the middle and I think apprenticeship is for him. "With an apprenticeship he is learning on the job and getting the qualifications from day one" - you called it well - this one day is not education at school, but qualifications. But everyone says that with appreticeship he can do something like high education or NVQ7. Is there a difference between college and 6th form? I thought that college was the worst option, where you just take a course and when you want to continue your education, it's as if you were wasting those years because they don't count those years for you.

[FlutteryButterfly]

Colleges are just as good (if not better) than Sixth forms, they certainly offer more courses at various levels including A levels.

If he is not an academic and/or doesn't enjoy education as such I would guide towards an Apprenticeship. Learning on the job and getting paid (ok not particularly well but the course is funded this way). If willing to learn and graft he will have a headstart in the industry. If he is going to choose an apprenticeship, it's highly unlikely he would return to education/University. He may, however choose to do extra qualification to add to his profession in future.

[Fifi04]

@Needmorelego

What do you mean by "going back to studying" after college? At college you spend 2 (or 3) years studying 🤔

and then what can a teenager - a student - do - s/he can go to work, and if s/he wants to continue his studies, where?

[LIZS]

There are further education colleges and sixth form colleges as well as school sixth forms. They have to be in a form of education or training until 18, which includes apprenticeships. College courses are rarely full time so they can also work part-time or take additional subjects. . Gcse attainment will dictate what level of course is available in year 12. Year 12 and 13 are not wasted if they can progress onto a uni course or into work.

[Needmorelego]

You seem very confused about what a college is and what getting a qualification means.
To get a qualification - one that you would be required to have to work in specific trades - you either go to college or apprenticeship and both are giving you an education.
College "courses" are education. Why don't you think they are?

[twistyizzy]

You are very confused with what colleges etc are.
Training is education.
Apprenticeships are education.
6th form college for A-levels is education.
They are all education, just different forms of education.

[Needmorelego]

@Fifi04 after college a person can either
Get a job (any job).
Get a job in the trade they have spent 2 years studying for.
Go to university.
Do a higher level qualification/course of what they have just studied for 2 years.
Do an apprenticeship (you can do these at any age).

[Fifi04]

it's very interesting what you write, because my son's grade in school is above average 55% - it's not WOW, but I wonder what about the children below - where do they go? Besides, I always explain to him that it's better to be the weakest among the best than the best among the weak ;-)

[LIZS]

55% in what? You need to check gcse past grade boundaries to see what his grade predictiins might be.

[twistyizzy]

@Fifi04

it's very interesting what you write, because my son's grade in school is above average 55% - it's not WOW, but I wonder what about the children below - where do they go? Besides, I always explain to him that it's better to be the weakest among the best than the best among the weak ;-)

Firstly, for confidence and self esteem you are wrong that it is better to be the weakest in a high achieving group. In actual fact for many kids it is better to be the higest achiever of a weaker group.

[Needmorelego]

@Fifi04 for teens that really do not pass GCSEs or get very low grades they can take GCSEs again either at a college or a school 6th form.
You can do 3 years of Post 16 education so some will spend 1 year redoing GCSEs (usually just English and Maths as they are the basics) followed by 2 years of whatever they decide to do (A-levels/Btec/T-Levels/Apprenticeship).

[twistyizzy]

@Fifi04

it's very interesting what you write, because my son's grade in school is above average 55% - it's not WOW, but I wonder what about the children below - where do they go? Besides, I always explain to him that it's better to be the weakest among the best than the best among the weak ;-)

It is unusual to judge a pupils place by %, usually by GCSE year schools are grading in line with GCSE grades ie 1-9.
When you say 55%, he won't be getting this score across all subjects so I don't really understand how you think he is just above average. 50% in exams isn't an average.

[Fifi04]

hahaha - maybe you're wrong?? ;-) I'd rather be smart and not very self-confident than self-confident and... - it often goes hand in hand

[twistyizzy]

@Fifi04

hahaha - maybe you're wrong?? ;-) I'd rather be smart and not very self-confident than self-confident and... - it often goes hand in hand

Well I've been in education sector for 20+ years and I have never yet met a learner who has said they feel happier being the bottom of a class!

[Fifi04]

Yous help me a lot - seriously - I'm very happy and thank Yous but... I know I don't know anything. I know less than we started;-))

[MigGirl]

@Fifi04

well, once again: children who want to learn go to 6th form. Children who don't like learning - don't pass GCSE - go where...? My son is in the middle and I think apprenticeship is for him. "With an apprenticeship he is learning on the job and getting the qualifications from day one" - you called it well - this one day is not education at school, but qualifications. But everyone says that with appreticeship he can do something like high education or NVQ7. Is there a difference between college and 6th form? I thought that college was the worst option, where you just take a course and when you want to continue your education, it's as if you were wasting those years because they don't count those years for you.

I think your confused between 6th form and college. Here and where I grew up there where more college's. My DD is at college doing A-level's, I studied a BETC Natuonal diploma. Both qualifications can allow you to go onto University and do degrees, no wasting 2 years.

The advantage with college is they often have more facilities then a 6th form and can offer a wider choice of qualifications. And have other options not just A-level's.

Your son could go to college and get his electrical qualifications, then start in a job. Or he could do an appentership where he learns on the job and does day release to get his qualifications. The results is the same really and he has to stay in education until 18, appenterships count in this. It's upto him and of course if what he wants to do is offered as an appentership in your area.

[ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea]

If your DS knows that he wants to be an electrician then he has a choice . He can either go to college and take a two year course, get his qualification and then look for a job afterwards or he can look for an apprenticeship where he gets on-the-job training . As part of their apprenticeship a young person will either go to college one day per week, or, they may just do their training at their workplace with some on-line modules and an assessor that comes to see them at this place of work .

There seems to be actually two types of apprenticeship - a traditional one which is funded by the employer and a 'modern apprenticeship' which is a government scheme with set rates of pay and the young person isn't guaranteed a job at the end but they will have learned valuable life skills being in the workplace.

Young people who didn't pass GCSE in maths, English and IT need to continue to do some kind of study in these areas until they are 18.

Beyond getting 5 GCSEs, I'm not sure of the benefit of additional academic qualifications unless they are hoping to go on to higher education . Eg good GCSEs needed for 6th form college and A level grades needed for uni but aside from this employers will be looking towards maths and English GCSE and appropriate vocational qualifications for a trade. Additional work place learning is always beneficial for promotion.

It may well be that when he leaves school he finds it easier to get the college place than the apprenticeship - so there is that to bear in mind .

[TeenDivided]

Apprenticeships are good if the student is mature enough to cope with the 5 day a week, no school holidays approach. They get paid to train and come out with a qualification and real world experience. Also they need to be able to get to place of work.

Vocational college courses are good for those who would benefit from more maturing, and more guidance in learning, for those who don't want to go into 5 days a week slog, who want to get their qualification and then a job.

At college there will be some people who don't want to be there, but there will be many who are trying their best to get the best qualifications they can.