Starting Maths A level now (Jan!)

[redblonde]

Hi - my daughter chose Law Psychology and Chemistry for A levels and is doing OK in all of them, Slightly to her surprise I think she is really liking Chemistry and looking to take it at uni. Something we hadn't realised until now is that many universities require Maths A level in order to take a Chemistry degree.
We are speaking to the school about how to make this work to increase her university choices.

It is too late in they year to swap now, but they have said we could get a private tutor for the rest of year 12 to get her to the same standard as the school year 12 by the end of the summer, then, assuming she's doing OK, she could switch into the school Maths class in year 13 and drop one of the other subjects.

Obvious concern i is whether it will overload her too much - she is a bright-ish girl (7s and a few 8s at GCSE) but, being brutally honest, has not properly had to work really hard. She has a good short term memory which she used well at GCSE! I don't want this to end up with her struggling in all subjects.

Has anyone any practical experience of anything similar? I know no-one hear knows whether she can do it or not, and we are speaking to the school but it would be good to hear any experience (positive or negative) to help make a decision.
Thanks

Hey there OP

Chemistry is far from a specialist area of mine but I just checked a couple of unis well regarded for STEM and one had no subject requirements beyond chemistry (tho there was a grade reduction for an extra science); the other required another science but that included other options than just maths.

So what I am saying is, make sure you and your DD have thoroughly researched where she might like to study chem and make sure she does need maths before embarking on this suggestion.

A lot of unis class psychology as a science for example (tbf Warwick, which was the uni I looked at that did require a second science, did not accept psych for chemistry, but others might).

Does she love maths? It’s a tough A level to take on if you don’t. Tho it would support chemistry without any doubt. What did she get at GCSE? Remember that she won’t have done any maths since last June – that’s a big gap. DD picked up French (another linear subject) in September of year 12 having finished it in May – and not initially intended to take the A level – that was a struggle. This will be harder.

DS2 took maths A level with an 8 at GCSE and got a hard-won B. Would your DD be better off seeing if any unis will accept her psych A level – or is there a better choice of other science than maths – such as biology or physics?

Know nothing about Chemistry, but it would take a lot of tutoring to get her to catch up a term. Check the entry requirements and see if they would accept AS maths or even core maths.

Also have a look and do the free trials for uplearn and tailored tutors. She might still need private tuition as well but it could bring the cost down if she does decide to go ahead.

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This was a game changer for my child he got the A needed for medicine. He was getting B’s in his mocks and we couldn’t find a tutor locally so we booked him on this course in 2023 as he took his A level in June 2023. Loads of students were staying on their own but we booked a cottage with a hot tub and made a little holiday out of it as York is a lovely city. Think he does one in Surrey too.

John the tutor does online tutoring too.

If your DD is serious and needs a boost I would 100% recommend John.

Drfrostmaths is free and has courses on just about every exam board.

As far as I am aware, only Oxford, Imperial and Durham specifically require Maths A level for their chemistry courses. Many do expect a second science (and/or give lower offers for a second science). Many, but not all, would regard Psychology as a second science.

It is true that maths would be regarded as a second science by all offering chemistry but to taking it alongside three other subjects might affect the grades of those subjects ie BBCC including maths might close off more chemistry courses than AAB not including maths - so there is a balance to be struck and a judgement to be made.

Why then did my husband have to attend maths lectures in his chemistry degree?

Maths a level is a big jump up from GCSE as well

@Harrysmummy246 i have no idea why, sorry. I did say that chemistry is not my area.

BUT it is certainly the case (and I see @PerpetualOptimist backs me up on this) that there are universities, including highly ranked ones, that will or may accept a student for a chemistry degree without maths, perhaps without a second science, or may accept psych.

So my suggestion to @redblonde was to look first at possible unis before jumping in to a challenging task like sitting maths A level after less than 18mo of study.

I would think some extra maths - maybe core maths studied in yr 13 - might be helpful too.

Thanks for the advice so far - particularly the online tutors which look like they could be very useful. Before starting this I did do an analysis of the top 20 universities for Chemistry and what they state their entry requirements are - 11 of them require Maths or a second science (where they haven't specified whether psychology "counts" as a science.) So she can still do a Chemistry degree without Maths, it just reduces her options.

I emailed Durham (just picked a random one that stated it required Maths) to ask if it was a "hard" requirement and their response, while woolly, did indicate it was. You have prompted me to contact the other universities to see if, as a few of you suggested, Core Maths might be an option.

Somebody asked if she loved Maths - while I wouldn't say that she did at GCSE (although she got a 7, and was hoping for an 8) she didn't particularly love Chemistry at GCSE either, but has really enjoyed it at A level. So its hard to know if she will love Maths at A level. It was definitely an A level option, she just decided Psychology sounded more interesting!

Hello! I'm a head of Chemistry at a secondary/sixth form. I would say that while many universities don't have it as a requirement, she would really struggle with the physical chemistry if she hasn't done maths past GCSE. I have students who don't study maths and they find some of the maths in a level chemistry challenging.

If she is sure, I would suggest that she asks the sixth form manager if she can perhaps drop law and at least attend the year 12 maths lessons. If not, she will find it really hard keeping up with the demands of two essay subjects plus the challenge of chemistry and maths.

Another free resource:

Whether they accept without a level maths or not doesn't indicate whether it would actually be a hindrance not to do so.

@redblonde suggest daughter looks to pick up some maths in y13 rather than now and applies on that basis. But a 7 is still going to make it a pretty big jump

Yes agree - the fact is maths is useful for chemistry at A level and degree - hence suggestions of at least Core maths

Ds is looking to study Chemistry and I would say if you are aiming for a top 20 course then A level maths is pretty essential or even AS (although it doesn't have to be a top grade). Universities may say it's not an essential requirement but it might make her a less competitive applicant without it and you won't know the effect of that until offers start to come in. Perhaps she needs to look at the mid tariff universities. For example ds has an offer from Bath of AABB (he's dong 4 A levels) with the A's in Chem and Maths. He's doing a further science and Further maths. Places like Sheffield, Nottingham, Reading etc might be worth a look.

However it does sound like she's able at Chemistry if she's got this far without maths. I'd advise to drop law, pick up the A level at whatever point they're now at and tutor to catch up. She'd need to work hard though - there's a big step up between GCSE and A level.

My DC is in first year of a chemistry degree at Bath, they took A level math but some of the students did not. The university does run maths courses relevant to the maths needed in chemistry as part of their degree to compensate for this which is very good. My DC has found the degree to be very well taught with lots of tutor support and direction, there are a lot of contact hours and it is challenging but interesting, they are glad they took A level maths as it gives them a bit of breathing space now. (Contact hours are over 20 hours per week)

DC2 is taking A level maths and it is proving to be a massive challenge but something that is needed so it's a matter of just pushing through. I would be a bit nervous of swapping to math A level now but many schools, my DC2s included, get their students to take 4 A levels in year 12, most drop one at the end of year 12 and gain an AS qualification, a few continue with 4 subjects. So the suggestion of your DC's school to take year 12 math outside of school and see how your DC gets on does seems like a good idea, if they are planning to applying to places that need maths A level. Best wishes

Which university did your DH go to?
I have a Chemistry degree from Bristol university. It was possible to take a Maths course in the first year if you didn't have A level Maths.

Oxford. So pretty reputable. Compulsory regardless of a level maths

I did biology, also at Oxford, and had a whole year of statistics lectures etc and a final exam. Which would have been even more difficult without a level maths. It was very evident by who struggled who hadn't done maths past GCSE.

Ds is at Cardiff and doing MCHem. He done a B-Tec not A-Level. He takes additional maths lessons to aid him along with others who did not do maths at a-level.

I thought I'd update in case anyone wax ever in a similar situation. We went with tutors (about 3 hours a week on average) and has lots of discussions with the school. She did an assessment in July and another in September and did really well and is now happily doing Maths instead of law in year 13.

It was an expensive solution and she has had to work hard (online sessions all through the holidays so no real break) but she is being predicted an A* Thanks for all the advice earlier in the year.