Agencies or Council?

[Surburbia]

I'd love to hear from people who foster with agencies or directly with the council - or even better, who have had experience of both.

Having done a lot of research we initially thought we would go with an agency (better support, 24/7 SW access, higher fees).

The argument against is usually: you will get more difficult kids as councils always place their children with their own foster carers first because placing with an agency is so expensive so the 'easier' cases are placed in house (the exception being if you can offer large family group fostering (which we can't - our max is 2). We're not actually wanting to foster kids - rather UASMs or possibly mother and baby.

My concern with agencies is as follows: it was explained to me by one agency: we get offered a placement and then we pass this out to tender amongst all our foster carers. So you are competing amongst all the agencies' carers - which could very well mean that we will not be kept busy/have long gaps between fostering.

The downsides of working for the council are: uncontactable SWs who are severely over-stretched, incompetence (agencies have a better reputation for competence because they are a business and have to make a profit - or maybe it's just that they have a much smaller caseload) and lower fees.

What are peoples' opinions? I'm not seeking political opinions (ie. the moral aspect of working for a commercial enterprise like an agency as I'm up to speed on that). Just what peoples' experiences of both have been like.

Thanks!

[GiantCheeseMonster]

Not a cater but work with fosterers of both types. LA carers get support from other agencies within the LA, such as the Virtual School. I wouldn’t say they always get easier children - it’s more that there’s not enough of them and they’re often long-term matched so LAs have to go to agencies to increase capacity. Lots of LA carers have complex children. Agencies tend to want carers to have more children at a time if possible.

UASC are generally 16+ and usually placed in residential homes which have developed expertise in this area IMO. I can’t think of any in my area placed with carers.

Were I applying to be a carer, I would personally go via the LA.

[Surburbia]

Thanks. There are several LA's who are desperate to place UASCs as people are not that keen (worries about them being not actually 16 but much older plus other worries). Some LA's do put them in residential care or just hotels, but others such as Newcastle, Lancashire and Norwich put them into fc until they are 18

[f0stercarer]

urban myths, old wives tales, call them what you will but these generalisations tend to be unhelpful. The fact is that LA s tend to have few vacancies and are often completely full. The LA does not keep a abnk of empty foster carer beds ready for "easy" children and place complicated cases out to LAs. I am with an agency and have had 10 children over 5 years. Maybe 1 has been "complex". The process is that a child is taken into care and if a suitable placement cannot be found in house then details are circulated to many many agencies. Those agencies will then look at their empty places to seek out suitable carers. They will then reply to the LA with details of the most suitable carers they have. The LA will usually receive many replies and will then decide who the child will go to. It is the LA, not the agency, who make that decision. As a new carer it is essential that you are with an organisation that has supporting social workers with low caseloads as you are likely to need more support at the start of your career. It is also massively advantageous to have a situation where the "Matching" team know you and your situation well and where you are able to see the full referral sheet detailing the full history of any child. Many will withold this from you as "you dont need to see it, we will tell you what is relevant".. Don't have a discussion if this is the case , just run for the hills !!

[Surburbia]

@f0stercarer you are, however, describing a tendering out system that the council do, circulating placements to, as you say, 'many, many agencies'. That worries me. I'd rather be busy and not have to compete with 100s of others.

Also, I know you take large family groups and thus I believe have more power to refuse anyone who you feel isn't good for your circumstances. I spoke to Nexus about being choosy and they weren't keen to say the least. Their view was: if you kept refusing, we'd have to consider if the relationship was working...

You say: 'you are likely to need more support at the start of your career'. I'd be most grateful if you could detail what this support entails. I seriously have no idea what this support is and what one needs it for. Concrete examples would be immensely useful.

Thanks!

[bloodywhitecat]

I am LA, when DH was diagnosed with, and subsequently dying from, cancer my social worker and the children's social workers bent over backwards to help us so although the pay isn't the best I am staying LA. I am currently fostering a very complex child so it isn't true that complex means agency, LAs prefer to stay in house but often struggle to get foster carers.

[WetLettuce2]

I’ve gone from LA to agency (4 years LA and 1 year agency).
Agency is proving far better - better communication, more consistent SWs (LAs were always off sick or on annual leave or they were waiting to backfill a post!), better pay and regular payments on time.

I heard the same things about having difficult placements (I only do respite), but that’s not my experience so far.
Ive been a lot busier with the agency, and when I’ve said no to a placement for whatever reason, I’ve not had it held against me (unlike with the LA).

Training had been good with both. Access to advice 24/7 has been good with both.
The agency also pay a bonus twice a year which I wasn’t expecting, and the agency do a lot of paid for activities and days out.

[Surburbia]

What agency are you with @WetLettuce2 ? You can PM me if you prefer not to say here. If they're good I'd love a recommendation. Thanks so much.

[Cassimin]

I’m with an agency and while our Fc is quite complex a lot of the cares I know have children who’s needs aren’t as high.
LAs are losing a lot of carers to agencies so as a result are unable to keep children in house. This is probably due to rates of pay.
At meetings I am noticing a lot of carers with babies, when I started 11 years ago this was not the case. So the statement that the agencies get ‘easier’ children is not true ( think that term is terrible by the way)
when our child first came their Sw told me that if they have no in house carers they get given a load of info about different agency carers, they sift through them and choose one. She told me that if she sees carers who’ve ended placements she puts them at the bottom of the pile. ( probably as a breakdown means more work!) she then picks what she thinks is the best match.
supposedly the government are pumping a lot of money into supporting families so we may see more mother and baby placements.
Personally I would have preferred to go with LA but felt that I wouldn’t have had the same support from them due to lack of resources, so I chose a small local agency. .
Our small run agency has been taken over many times and is now massive.
They started changing everything around and I have considered moving( you can change agency with the child if you are not happy) but to be fair they have had lots of complaints and they have listened and they are making changes.
I have found that some of the the training etc is a bit of a tick box exercise just to make you more attractive to the LA.
All of our carers are busy and we are constantly being asked for recommendations for new carers. There are different tiers of agencies though so you would need to check where the one you look into is.
I would keep options open, talk to La and agencies but be aware agencies make money off you so will sell themselves well. Try to speak to their carers.

[f0stercarer]

@Surburbia

@f0stercarer you are, however, describing a tendering out system that the council do, circulating placements to, as you say, 'many, many agencies'. That worries me. I'd rather be busy and not have to compete with 100s of others.

Also, I know you take large family groups and thus I believe have more power to refuse anyone who you feel isn't good for your circumstances. I spoke to Nexus about being choosy and they weren't keen to say the least. Their view was: if you kept refusing, we'd have to consider if the relationship was working...

You say: 'you are likely to need more support at the start of your career'. I'd be most grateful if you could detail what this support entails. I seriously have no idea what this support is and what one needs it for. Concrete examples would be immensely useful.

Thanks!

Sorry for late reply. been on hols ....I would say its like any job in that you dont know what you dont know until you start. I am a great believer in taking advice from people who have walked the path before you and thus when confronted with demands from some agents be it birth parents, LA social workers, new schools, virtual schools, health visitors etc etc it can be really useful to know what is truly expected and what is being tried on. At outset you obviuously stand out like a sore thumb to more experienced other agents and are ripe to be pushed around.You asked for concrete examples so let me give you one. CONTACT (horrible word to decribe family time where foster kids meet birth parents or siblings or both etc). You may be asked to meet birth parents or family members at a park or public place and the LA might say they expect this of you. Seems reasonable and you dont want to be confrontational. However this must be refused and should be done with the help of your ssw. LA might insist on a certain school and you need how to go about persuading them its a big mistake without alienating them. it's just the politics and systems to get your desired outcomes.

[f0stercarer]

you are also likely to want advice and input with dealing with your placements particular needs. You are more likely to get help from a sw with lower case loads than with higher. Later with more experience your knowledge pool is clearly going to be larger.

[Surburbia]

Many thanks for your insights @f0stercarer

[Bikechic]

Depends on the LA. Mine is brilliant (despite a few niggles) so I would recommend LA. Not the case everywhere. I imagine agencies have good & bad ones too.

[GiantCheeseMonster]

@f0stercarer

Sorry for late reply. been on hols ....I would say its like any job in that you dont know what you dont know until you start. I am a great believer in taking advice from people who have walked the path before you and thus when confronted with demands from some agents be it birth parents, LA social workers, new schools, virtual schools, health visitors etc etc it can be really useful to know what is truly expected and what is being tried on. At outset you obviuously stand out like a sore thumb to more experienced other agents and are ripe to be pushed around.You asked for concrete examples so let me give you one. CONTACT (horrible word to decribe family time where foster kids meet birth parents or siblings or both etc). You may be asked to meet birth parents or family members at a park or public place and the LA might say they expect this of you. Seems reasonable and you dont want to be confrontational. However this must be refused and should be done with the help of your ssw. LA might insist on a certain school and you need how to go about persuading them its a big mistake without alienating them. it's just the politics and systems to get your desired outcomes.

I want to take slight issue with “LA might insist on certain school” as if this is unreasonable. I work in the Virtual School in my LA. When children come into care, everything changes for them. School may be their only thing that stays the same so it is vital that they can continue to remain in the same one if possible. Similarly, some children sadly experience multiple placement moves and these should not result in a change of school unless they are moving miles out of area. We know that the evidence is that all children are set back academically about 6 months following a school move and this is exacerbated for children in care, who are educationally disadvantaged as a result of their experiences to start with. All school moves have to come through me in my LA I do not approve them if it is purely for carer convenience. You get fostering allowance and transporting children to school is a key part of the role.

In addition, not all schools are the same as we all know. Legislation states CIC should not attend a school with an Ofsted rating less than Good unless this is unavoidable and some schools are more trauma-informed than others. It’s a nuanced decision to decide on a school for our children and distance from placement is a factor but not necessarily the most important.

[f0stercarer]

well you can take issue all you like but you seem to have ignored my use of the word "might" and the fact that this was an example not a generalisation. I am happy to expand on the detail in this case. LA was placing children over an hour and a half away from their previous home and school. Clearly a chnage of school was required. The virtual school suggested the local "dump" school. I understand that from a distance it was attractive. It had spare places and a "good" ofsted rating. However our local knowledge was such that we knew it would be a poor choice and there were other schools much better equipped pastorally (and educationally). Although the ofsted rating was "good" for the LA preferred school close examination of their ofsted report revealed that they were specificaly criticised for their lack of provision for children in care. Something which the vistual school failed to spot but which we highlighted in our detailed case (put togther with help of our agency ssw ). The LA sw did not want to get involved in disagreeing with with her own LA virtual school recommendation. In conclusion virtual schools do get it wrong from time to time, particularly when dealing with schools outside of their own LA. It is important to stand up for your children and in my direct experience agency SSWs are more likely to assist in challenging virtual schools than LA sws who work for the same organisation as the virtual school. I know we are "only" foster carers but often our knowledge is far superior to that of the "professionals" who may not like to be challenged, but that must not stop us from standing up for our children.

[julel]

Hi,
please could you tell me which fostering agency you are with, I'm looking to moving over, due to no support within the fostering service i am with.

Thanks

[CraftyGin]

We are foster carers for our Local Authority. It didn't occur to us to sign up with an agency.

We had a rough start and were pressurised to take a young person who was clearly not suitable for us. He was care-experienced and saw through that we were new and naive. We didn't have a SSW at the time. The placement did not end well.

My advice is to see through all the pressure and make sure you SSW is on board.

We went on to do emergency placements, and some of those were good, but they were emotionally stressful.

As time went by, we ignored all the 'she loves to cook' comments, and asked about the bad stuff. "She made sexual allegations about her last three male foster carers" - d'oh, what will stop her saying the same things about DH?

Since being more discerning, and deciding placements with our SSW, things have gone well. I learnt to block out calls from "Gateway" (the emergency team in our LA).

I find it a bit frustrating when SWs are part-time or always take off school holidays. I'm not so bothered now as we are more settled. However, I have found supervisors to be accessible.

With LA, everything is reasonably joined up - SWs, training, contact, etc.