My son's lecturer - I was glad he was being taught by a radical feminist, but now...

[lborgia]

My son is taking a unit in Gender, Crime, and Justice.

I was a little surprised he took that course, but very happy, but now feel it is going horribly wrong.

Because the lectures are all available online, I've seen what she says, because I wanted to check that the comments were exactly as DS described, and they were.

The lecturer insists that men become criminals because they are dealing with feelings of inferiority, and as if they're not masculine enough, and compensating.

She insists that women are criminalised by controlling men, and/or the patriarchy. That no women becomes a criminal of her own volition.

She said that only women are victims of domestic violence.

She said that all women are victims of rape, even if only because their lives are ruled by fear of rape.

There were others, but these stuck in my mind.

Oddly, I consider myself a radical feminist, but I think that a lecturer needs to deal with academic concepts, supported by sources, rather than sweeping generalisations, which are announced in purely subjective terms. I think this throws the reality out with the bathwater.

If this was a postgrad course, this could lead to debate, but with 1st year undergrads, it is making pronouncements as if they're absolutes, isn't it?

I agree that many many women end up with criminal records via drugs, sex work, stealing, which are undoubtedly usually as a result of men in their lives.

I agree that women have to live their lives with rape as a potential reality.

I do not believe that only women deal with DV, and one of the reasons my son is so upset is that his first girlfriend was so controlling, and made his life miserable. I'm still mortified that I didn't realise because it didn't occur to me that she could be doing anything wrong.

Anyway, I thought I would ask you for your thoughts and advice. I'm not going to get involved directly, it's uni, not school, but I think she is actually having the opposite impact, implying that women are by definition victims, and making my son angry and confused, when he went in keen to learn.

I think I would feel the same if my daughter had the same teacher...?

[Pirrin]

There's often a chance for students to give anonymous feedback on lecturers at the end of a module. Maybe he could start thinking about the sort of thing he'd like to say from now so it could be done quickly when the time came.

[lborgia]

Thanks@Pirrin - good idea.

[sawdustformypony]

He could do what most men do when faced with such obvious nonsense - go along with it for the time being and dump it at the first opportunity. File under "Whatever".

[lborgia]

@sawdustformypony - that made me laugh, but it's also so painful. I want my son to listen to women, in the same way as he would listen to anyone. I had a really rocky patch where he was dismissing what I said because I'm old, it was doing my head in. It turns out it can be a teenage thing, as well as a societal problem, and at least within our family he's back to thinking my counsel sometimes has value

I've just seen him filing something, so maybe he's done what you said, literally!

[GloomyDarkness]

There's often a chance for students to give anonymous feedback on lecturers at the end of a module. Maybe he could start thinking about the sort of thing he'd like to say from now so it could be done quickly when the time came.

Probably best thing to do.

I did science undergraduate and master - then late in my 20s went back with OU to study different areas.

There was a rare get together meeting that I attended - I think as intro to course and it was social sciences - there was a lecture like this - not same area but spouting dubious stats he's just encountered and very firm opinions much more out there than normal where nuance or sources would have been better - left me worried about what I signed up and paid for. However my actual tutor was great - course covered science of brain and studies and experiments - I loved it.

So while it's not the same - as your son is likely being marked by this person - one course/lecturer probably isn't that important long term - I think everyone experiences poorer lectures and teachers of both sexes.

[Thesonglastslonger]

It’s really concerning how modern lecturers (and many students) seem to think that university is about learning “The correct view” and repeating it.

When I was at Oxford, lecturers taught us to question and challenge everything, especially them. They loved nothing more than a student who could prove them wrong, because that is how academic advances are made and they loved academia more than they loved themselves.

Why isn’t this happening anymore?! Once our universities lose the ability to debate and turn themselves into indoctrination centres, society becomes a pretty nasty place.

(She’s right that the vast majority of women in prison were put there as a result of their relationship with controlling men though. That’s just a statistical fact. But did those men become controlling because they had bad mothers? Where do you stop asking questions?)

[IamEarthymama]

When I was at university studying social sciences one of my lecturers was a pastor in an evangelical Christian church,m.
I am a lesbian radical feminist.

Oh we had some dingdongs, especially if I was leading the seminar. I was a mature student and a cohort of younger students thought after one seminar where we had really come from opposing viewpoints that I should rewrite my notes, the basis for the assessed essay to fully reflect his, the marking lecturer's, position.
Of course, I did no such thing.
I accepted that he and others held these beliefs, I provided academic sources for them and then I rebutted them with my opinions, equally backed up academically.

My lecturers would sometimes make provocative statements to fuel such discussions; is this perhaps what OP's son's lecturer is trying to do?
She should, of course, explain clearly if that is her intention.

I like OP and her son, nothing better than a good discussion.

[GloomyDarkness]

I accepted that he and others held these beliefs, I provided academic sources for them and then I rebutted them with my opinions, equally backed up academically.

My actual OU tutors were like this - open to debate and willing to discuss alternative theories and the evidence for and against them but the guy that day wasn't willing to be argued with or contradicted talked over people and ignore questions. Not all lectures have same abilities, experience and attitudes.

It's why I mentioned I'd done university before - yes different subject area - but I was aware of what it's supposed to be like. I assumed the OP 17 year old is like my teens able to work out when someone wants a discussion and when they appear not to.

Also, this teacher has not taught this unit before, I think is covering a sabbatical, and this was 3 weeks in, so not a lot of time for complaints.

I missed this previously - but perhaps the lecture is less secure with the subject area/teaching for the module - presenting other people's material isn't always easy especially if it's not how you'd have approached it but perhaps it will improve as they find their feet a bit more.

[roarfeckingroarr]

Sounds fab

[AreOttersJustWetCats]

@EmilyGilmoresSass

Why on Earth are you poking your nose into your adult child's lecture notes? Do you sign his homework too?

This. As a university student, he should be capable of discussing and challenging views or interpretations he disagrees with, and giving evidence to back up his arguments.

[DysonSpheres]

@zzzexhaustedzzz

Interesting. I did a degree as a mature student and none of our tutors would have expressed subjective opinions like this. It would have seemed unprofessional and unacademic! It was a top uni/ course though, not sure whether that makes much difference.
We also did some gender-based work.
Get your son to take responsibility for his response to this. He should ask the others what they think. He should speak one to one with the tutor and say what he thinks. Then as is said above he should do all the reading and take issue with her ideas in writing his essays. If he doesn’t get a satisfactory response when speaking to the tutor he can report it. Students aren’t meant to be passive recipients of other peoples views. That’s the opposite of what University is meant to be!

I think being at top university which is likely more rigorous about standards does, because I certainly encountered the same as the OP's son above and from a feminist lecturer. Some of the quality of the lectures in general were extremely biased and interpretation of evidence lacking nuance .

Fortunately I was a mature student so not afraid to put up my hand in a lecture hall and question. But I found it appalling that students were being charged ridiculous amounts of money for one-sided facts you could read in a book instead of coming to university to hear. The thing is they are then evaluated poorly for their essays which go on to lack nuance, critique and interpretation of evidence too.

[lborgia]

Thanks for the continued useful debate, all grist to the mill.

How ironic, though, @AreOttersJustWetCats , that you think I should just shut up and tell him to get on with it. How is that teaching him to be inquiring, how is that parenting?

I'm really glad that you're not the one with a barely 17 yr old, going straight to uni bypassing A levels, and figuring out how the world works. He's been extremely ill, and yet needed something more challenging, academically, and yet is not mature enough/well enough to go away to uni for another year or two.

Fuck me, if I'd left him to it at the point he came out angry and flailing about this lecturer, that would've been bizarre.

Not having in person classmates to chew it over with, or anyone else with even a vague clue on this, I'm afraid he came to me.

Difficult to debate anything when you haven't done the homework, though. Read the context first, next time.

[Rollingaroundinmud]

If he wanted to go to university would they accept this qualification have you done your research into what he wants to do later?

[lborgia]

@Rollingaroundinmud - he's now been offered a place, and has accepted. I'm really happy for him.

[MintyFreshOne]

This happens with a lot of other subjects in academia, your son of course needs to go along to get along and pass his course, but this is a wonderful opportunity to apply critical thinking and reasoned arguments to challenge the class orthodoxy.

It’s a useful life skill tbh

[Grammarnut]

@RoseslnTheHospital

I'd perhaps gently discuss with him why reading something that he disagrees with makes him feel angry and confused. Rather than curious and keen to take on the challenge of understanding a different point of view and debating it.

That is an excellent point. Learning to listen to those you disagree with and produce a couter argument is good training and one of the points of a university education. Well said.

[Grammarnut]

counter - typo.

[MarkWithaC]

I think the important thing is whether she is exposing her students to her own views to be deliberately provocative and stimulate thinking and debate, or whether she feels that her viewpoint is the 'correct' one.
Is there written work as part of this module? I'd be interested to see, if he hands in an essay challenging one or more of her statements, what her response is.

[Digitalhen]

There is an underlying theme within academia and educators that permeates everything in all of the social sciences: viewing all within society through the lens of oppressor/oppressed. This post-modernist, Freire inspired, Marx leaning undercurrent isn’t overtly taught or explicitly mentioned it’s just how educators themselves are taught to view everything. ‘Critical consciousness’ where the subject matter isn’t the essential or most important aspect only that students learn to situate themselves as identifying with the ‘oppressed’. Education becomes a means then to create activists and activism rather than to educate/impart knowledge. Debate is stimulated but only within this paradigm or lens.

The book ‘The Marxification of education’ explains this phenomena well. Or the book ‘Cynical theories’ by Pluckrose and Lindsay.

I’m delaying my own Phd because I’m thoroughly sick of academia and also that intellectuals appear to currently only produce stupid ideas along this theme. The only way I will be able to continue with it is by critiquing all of the above. Which means I’d likely never get published 😅

I’d continue as you are; watching and talking about this stuff as it arises and being sure your son knows that ‘ideas’ are not to be conflated with ‘knowledge’.

[maddy68]

It sounds like all that is leading to debate and further reading to back up arguements

[WhatAmIDoingWrong123]

@lborgia

@EmilyGilmoresSass - ooh, you're an ickle bit cross aren't you?!

Bless.

I thought you were perhaps a bit over involved with your son’s education, but also that you must be cool to have raised a young man so interested in his subjects and questioning of what he’s learning. However, this reply really cheapens your argument. It’s possible to have a disagreement without resorting to this type of response.

[Digitalhen]

Not really. Because non of that is explicit. None is mentioned. Instead the subject matter is presented as a way to ‘conscientize’ students. To raise awareness for activist purposes. But unless a student is acutely aware of this purpose - and it’s not a conspiracy amongst educators - it’s just they’ve been taught as educators that the point of education is to ‘transform’ or ‘revolutionise’ - create activists. The irony is they tell students to be critical and aware but not to the purpose of the social sciences!

One of my older children is doing an art degree and is often critiqued (marked down) for their art not being ‘political’ enough. But they only mean a certain faction of political thought, that a specific far leftist ideology should infuse the art work 🙄🙄 Towards their own leanings and inclinations. I’ve come to believe peer review is nothing but an echo chamber of the same people nodding towards their preferred theories. In my own area I was guided by academic tutors towards their preferred (post-modern Marxist inspired) theorists to support my research and then graded by the same group 😶

How does an undergraduate recognise and counter any of this when it’s so prevalent and even post grad researchers (like myself) find it impossible to? (Though I’m working on it)

[lborgia]

Thank you for all the further posts (well, most of them), I'm very happy to say that in the course of completing his final (3,000 word) assignment, he has articulated to me (of his own volition, not because I asked, or interfered) that he was relieved that in doing the research, he found that it was def her, not him

He felt that there were plenty of other ways of outlining the same issues/phenomena without him feeling personally attacked.

Meanwhile, on the strength of his with across 4 units over the last term, and what here are summer intensive courses, he was offered a place on the BA he most wanted to do, and started this week.

He's relieved that particular course is done, but it hasn't dampened his general enthusiasm.

PS @WhatAmIDoingWrong123 - if it was a matter of disagreement, I would try to match my opponent in debate. When someone is being plain unpleasant, factually incorrect, and/or personal), I think it's better to be silly rather than stoop to their level. If I'd responded as I felt it would've been deleted, so that wouldn't have been particularly helpful either.

PPS I'm going to find some links re the Marxification of Education, and have a read. Thanks for that PPs!

[MarkWithaC]

Congrats to your son, and to you for supporting him so well!

[lborgia]

Thanks @MarkWithaC - I just need to tell you that Mark with a C is my favourite meme, ever. I laugh to myself every time I remember it.