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Feminism: chat

People who Swoon Over Violent Men

40 replies

greasyshoes · 28/03/2022 18:52

I read something in the Guardian which annoyed me.

Tiffany Haddish has defended Will Smith’s on-stage behaviour tonight at the Governor’s Ball.

“When I saw a Black man stand up for his wife,” she said to People. “That meant so much to me. As a woman, who has been unprotected, for someone to say like, ‘Keep my wife’s name out your mouth, leave my wife alone,’ that’s what your husband is supposed to do, right? Protect you. And that meant the world to me. And maybe the world might not like how it went down, but for me, it was the most beautiful thing I ever seen because it made me believe that there are still men out there that love and care about their women, their wives.”

It's just so backwards and neanderthal-like. Men should use physical force to defend their family. Men should exert their dominance over other men. Men who confront other men are men who should be sought after.

I got past this type of thinking at the age of 10. Why should a man seek out physical confrontation? Why should a man try to dominate other men? Why should a man who fights other men be highly regarded?

It's nonsense. First of all, Will Smith should have understood that Chris Rock was doing comedy, and comedy often walks a fine line between being funny, and being tasteless. If he thought the joke was in poor taste, he should have told Chris Rock it was in poor taste, or he could have written to him after the show.

Watching a grown man slapping another grown man is just embarassing.

OP posts:

KimikosNightmare · 28/03/2022 23:22

Dreadful, dreadful attitude.

My husband is currently rewatching The Sopranos. I was half paying attention and I caught the scene where Dr. Melfi dreams about her rapist being attacked by a vicious dog. She knows that it's a desire for revenge. She knows if she just told Tony he would deal violently and viciously with the rapist, without her even asking. But she doesn't- because she's a grown-up.


MangyInseam · 29/03/2022 03:02

Hmm. Well, it might be interesting to think about the flip side of this manly desire to defend the family thing.

Because it's certainly true that among the politically progressive especially there is a sense that this sort of thing isn't on - and if you look at the military in various western countries you see that there is often a significant weighting towards voting for more conservative political parties among members. Which progressives will sometimes point to as evidence of being less intellectually and emotionally evolved.

But then we get a situation like Ukraine and men are not allowed to leave because they are expected to stay and fight, and there are all of threads from a safe distance with people saying that conscription is awful, the expectation that they stay and preferably fight is awful.

That's not to say the people saying this are being blasé about the situation, but realistically what are they suggesting? Those who don't want to stay and fight should flee, and then go back and say "thanks so much" later on once other people have protected their homeland for them? Or maybe they all should just flee and not bother at all?

If people don't have the kinds of emotions that propel them to protect their families from things they see as harmful, they won't be there when they are really necessary. And all emotions can be triggered at the wrong ties and sometimes people will follow their promptings.


WTF475878237NC · 29/03/2022 03:20

I remember being in a nightclub in my late 20s and a man shoved me out of his way and I fell to the floor. I was in shock and embarrassed, intimidated and didn't hold the power in that situation (just like Jada). At the time, I was angry at my husband for not saying or doing anything other than help me up. It felt like a message to me and the world that other people could treat me badly and he was OK with it.

Will's had decades of guilt at not standing up to defend his mother. Of course violence isn't the answer but I would have been proud if Will Smith was my husband and had said something live on air to defend me and acknowledge that I wasn't there as a comedy roast guest of honour. I do think it's a bit more nuanced than neanderthal-like.


Benjaminsniddlegrass · 29/03/2022 07:50

Urghhhh "most beautiful thing I've seen", made my fanny shrivel right up. I just don't get this attitude, Jada is not some defenceless precious being who requires her 'D'H to defend her honour. She has a voice and a significant presence being a world famous actress and all, she could have used it to great affect to bring shame (rightly so) on Chris Rock's behaviour. Instead we were given an exhibition of toxic masculinity. If she was being physically threatened/assaulted by a man then a man who is likely physically stronger inserting themselves in her defense may be proportionate. But this was male posturing pure & simple and if it had been my DH I'd consider it very difficult to come back from if he behaved in that way. I understand that Will Smith has experienced years of helplessness witnessing domestic abuse, clearly then he needs to get some proper intervention to address this not physically assault a man in his place of work (not that I condone the 'joke').


Clymene · 29/03/2022 07:55

There's no nuance in hitting someone because they said something you didn't like.

And if he hasn't got over his childhood trauma after so many years, maybe he needs to take some time out for some intensive therapy


Blackopal · 29/03/2022 08:02

Nothing in that situation was about what was best for Jada.
All of it was about ego and male violence.

I can't believe WS was allowed to sit back down and then applauded.
Was like something out of a David Attenborough programme. expected to hear a voiceover ' .. and now the alpha male has proved dominance, the rest of the group clap hands and show their bellies to model submission'.


Blackopal · 29/03/2022 08:08

Also it beggars belief that a group of total luvvies are changing the narrative to enable them to not to have to call it what it is.
I saw an interview with, I think, Liam Payne who was saying that although it was wrong there was love and beauty in it'???
Shows how strong the fear is of speaking against the crowd trying to excuse a powerful man.

Shows how easily powerful men get away with things.
Imagine WS goes on to commit violence in a less 'beautiful' way, everyone will be pretending there were no signs etc.


IncompleteSenten · 29/03/2022 08:09

If someone is in physical danger and cannot defend themselves or need help to defend themselves then you step in.
You don't need a big strong man to assault someone who said something rude to you.

And if Smith slapping Chris rock had anything to do with him hurting his wife's feelings then why didn't he go comfort her after he'd assaulted Rock? None of the footage I saw showed him even acknowledging her.

This was not about Jada's feelings.


MsTSwift · 29/03/2022 08:14

Hmm. The hitting and that incident were wrong but personally I couldn’t be with a wet man who would stand by while his wife or family were attacked.


Blackopal · 29/03/2022 08:22

I would not want a man who stood by if I were physically attacked, Jada was not attacked. A crap joke was made.
The egos are out of control very telling that it was all about'his wife'.


Alittlepotofrosie · 29/03/2022 08:29

He was sitting there laughing uproariously at the joke until he realised jada didn't find it funny then he went way over the top (probably to distract everyone from the fact he was laughing along at her expense). But then Chris rock shouldn't make jokes about a woman's appearance so he deserved it. The only one who comes out of this with any face is jada. Then people are comforting will when she's the one who was a) insulted and b) embarrassed by her violent husband. Poor woman.


debbrianna · 29/03/2022 08:34

Context matter and it's missing on this thread.


AdamRyan · 29/03/2022 08:35

He was sitting there laughing uproariously at the joke until he realised jada didn't find it funny then he went way over the top
Personally I think it took him a little while to get the joke and then he saw red. The joke was over so he couldn't shout anything.

I think Chris Rock is a disgusting bully to shame a woman like that in public and I have no sympathy whatsoever for him.


CremeEggsForBreakfast · 29/03/2022 08:36

Defending your wife doesn't have to mean physical confrontation. He could have taken the mic and said something - anything - that he felt appropriate to explain why Jada didn't appreciate a joke being made about her and her condition. He could have whispered in his ear. He could have spoken to him or written to him after the show. WS could have issued a statement or garnered a separate interview to have his say. He could have encouraged Jada to stand up and speak for herself. He could have gone away and cooled off and realised it was a (maybe tasteless) joke that didn't get all that many laughs anyway and moved on.

A slap just says in this instance was just assault for the sake of it.

If Rock had touched her then I may feel differently. But he didn't.

The PP who says noone even talks to Jada about it - not even WS - is spot on


debbrianna · 29/03/2022 08:36

Not with Will smith buy with Tiffany.


deydododatdodontdeydo · 29/03/2022 08:36

I think most of us agree with OP, but it's clear that many women would expect their man to do something in this situation.
As can be seen from a couple of PPs and many other threads on this site.
A lot of women would consider their husbands wimps if they didn't do this, so men are expected to step up and punch someone.


PotatoFamily · 29/03/2022 08:37

I would’ve preferred to see her smack him one. My DH is 100% one of those types who’d leap to my defence, however, I constantly tell him I don’t need him to.


Innocenta · 29/03/2022 08:44

Isn't it a creepy Scientology tactic to behave like Will Smith did? In my opinion that makes it even worse.


Vapeyvapevape · 29/03/2022 08:46

You can defend anyone , if you feel the need to , without resorting to violence .


CremeEggsForBreakfast · 29/03/2022 08:57


Not with Will smith buy with Tiffany.

This doesn't make any sense given Tiffany is for Will Smith.

You're basically saying "I don't think WS should have slapped CR in defence of Jada but I'd want someone to do it for me"

Cornettoninja · 29/03/2022 09:05

I haven’t got any time for violence that isn’t justified by, at the very least, self defence. Fists are never justified by words, however hurtful.

I also think people do themselves and others a massive disservice relating incidences of wholly inappropriate and ill judged behaviour to past recognised trauma.

Will Smith is 53 years old. Childhood was over thirty years ago. He’s had thirty odd years and unimaginable resources available to sort his shit out and learn to sit with that part of his life. In todays environment clinging onto trauma that affects your life today shows me someone who had no wish to be at peace and is frightened of losing a negative aspect of themselves because its a strong part of what defines who they are.


Cornettoninja · 29/03/2022 09:09

Shows how easily powerful men get away with things
Imagine WS goes on to commit violence in a less 'beautiful' way, everyone will be pretending there were no signs etc

Isn’t that basically what we’re seeing with Kanye West now? Surrounded by people who wouldn’t dare reign in their cash cow when he goes too far?


Whatwouldscullydo · 29/03/2022 09:17

I can only speak for myself obviously, but as car as anything regarding my physical appearance goes, fir me the only thing worse than talking about/mentioning something I know everyone can see/knows about, is not talking about it. It feels kinda dishonest to me. Like I'm getting special treatment I didn't ask for and being assumed to be more fragile than everyone else who gets laid into.

A man doing this becomes extra work for me. I have to defend his actions. I have to stand by him. I not only have to deal with my own embarrassment I'm having to deal with all the extra attention his actions brought. A comment would be soon forgotten, lost amongst the other comments one forgets a lunch up/fight/shouting match. The very attention being condemned is multiplied a thousand times through the violent actions of someone none of it was even about. That would embarrass me far more.

Support fir me would be coming with me should I make a complaint or ask for an apology , a hand hold while we give abiut things the right way.

I'd have preferred the opportunity myself to make a sarky come back comment , participate in the humour, or deal with things behind the scenes in an adult mature fashion.

As I said this is my opinion for me. I'm.sure others feel differently.


EmpressCixi · 29/03/2022 09:17

I’ve not seen anyone “swooning over violent men” in the Will Smith situation. Everyone has said that he over-reacted by slapping Chris Rock. I have seen people swoon over protective men. And let’s face it the purpose of the Ministry of Defence, MI5, MI6, the police Special Firearms Officers and such is to protect we civilians. Many men and women “swoon” over the protective guardian types in these professions. (Of course, they’re not 100% perfect as the professions also attract violent men and women who just want power of life and death over other humans.). But the purpose even if it is corrupted is to protect against violence. And we absolutely need these protectors/guardians.


Eloradannin2nd · 29/03/2022 09:19

He did laugh initially. That's rubbish to say that he didn't realise what he was laughing at.
Funny how he has now issued an apology when the Academy is launching an enquiry. Worried about that Oscar Will?
The tears in his acceptance speech were worthy of an Oscar.
He's an idiot.

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