Age for starting 2nd instrument

[ConstantastheNorthernStar]

DD(year 2) has been learning piano for 18 months and is doing well - she's doing her grade 1 next term. She has said a few times that she would really like to learn the violin. I'm quite keen for her to learn an ensemble instrument as I fondly remember how much fun it is playing in an orchestra. But is she a bit young to be learning two instruments? Money is not an issue but will it slow her progress with the piano? I'm conscious that there is only so much time in a week.

[Lovechilli75]

My youngest started learning the cello about that age - maybe the start of Y3? - on top of piano which he started a year or so earlier. but he was very keen and still plays both, although I’d thought he would drop one instrument - he’s now in Y7. Short daily(ish) practice sessions of both instruments has worked for us, and going to orchestra is great, it’s a community orchestra so we play together which I have to say is lovely. If it’s her idea I’d go with it!

[horseymum]

Not sure what age Y2 is as in Scotland but mine taught themselves recorder from about 7/8 after starting piano. I think they started second 2nd instruments properly around 9/10 but definitely could have coped with it younger although it hasn't held them back. I think establishing a good practice routine with short but daily sessions if possible will help be organised. When at primary, they did piano before school. The instruments will help each other as they will already be able to read music and have an understanding of pitch etc. Being in a group is so motivating too. Enjoy! There's a long running series of music threads with loads of support and advice for all levels.

[ConstantastheNorthernStar]

Thank you both. I am quite prejudiced against the violin because I anticipate years of squeakiness, but I think I will let her try and see how she gets on.

[thirdfiddle]

For me them wanting to consistently for a period of a few months, and them convincing me they were going to be prepared to practice two instruments consistently. Which may be relates to your limited time in a week - for us, they were in primary school, had very little homework, and in beginner stages 20 minutes per instrument per day would be brilliant so it really doesn't take a lot of time.

Time is sometimes a constraint now they're grade 6/7ish and playing in multiple ensembles, but they still spend more time playing computer games or watching youtube than they do on music so there is give if they wanted to be more industrious.

Does the second instrument slow down the first? As long as time doesn't become a constraint, I think it speeds it up. Even completely different instruments have a lot of overlap in terms of musicality, musical knowledge, reading etc. Certainly second instrument goes a LOT faster than a child the same age starting as a first instrument.

What did you play? (Or do you still?) I have tips for not being squeaky, but you may already know them if you played a string instrument yourself. Having a parent with a good ear supporting practice is a good tip in itself.

[ConstantastheNorthernStar]

@thirdfiddle I played clarinet, so I am at sea with the violin. I taught myself guitar when I was older, but I don't think that will help much. Any tips much appreciated!

[thirdfiddle]

You'll still speak the language, and be able to tell if things are out of tune I'm sure.

Talking about tuning, you and DC learning to tune the violin and doing that at the beginning of every practice will be a huge help. You can get a free tuning app on your phone and youtube for how to do it. It's also a sneaky way to practice long steady bows and getting them to listen critically to tuning.

Instrument matters and setup matters. DD started at 3 so we went through a lot of different sizes! Basically they want an instrument that has enough resonance to it that if they do things right they'll be rewarded with a nice ringing note. It doesn't need to be super fancy, but not ebay cheap violin outfits. DD's teacher recommended reputable factory brands like Stentor and Primavera in the beginner stages. Nice strings are worth spending a little more on if you get offered a choice. Cheap bows seem to be fine in the early stages, and unfortunately cheaper to replace than rehair if they start to get threadbare. But for all that stuff I'd just start by asking her teacher what they recommend.

And then once she's started, I think just being with her when she practices and helping her notice what works and what doesn't. There's so much you can do with a violin. You're aiming for curiosity and experimenting.

Even if she's just playing one open string note, how much can she make it ring? Is it better if she moves the bow faster or slower? Can she see the string vibrating in the middle? Can she make that any bigger? How long does it keep ringing if she lifts the bow off when she gets to the end of the note? The more you help her notice and enjoy the nice ringing sounds, the more she can adjust things for herself. And the fewer squeaks.

[ConstantastheNorthernStar]

@thirdfiddle This is really helpful, thank you! I will check out YouTube in the meantime. The lessons will be through the local authority music service so I will hire a violin from them initially. And they won't start until next term at the earliest so there is a bit of time for me to gen up. Thinking about it, the tuning process at least might not so different from the guitar, so I think I can help her with that.

[R41nb0wR0se]

I did singing and piano from 6, then started brass when I was 8. I progressed much quicker with brass than piano (possibly because I'd already learned to read music) and still play as an adult. You have several big advantages in supporting your daughter with the violin - you read music, the process of tuning is indeed pretty much the same as guitar and the way you alter the pitch of a note is basically the same. Plus you have a grasp of rhythm and intonation

[dancinginthewind]

For children in musical families, I think it's pretty normal for start one instrument around the time they start primary and then pick up the second as they go into juniors (yr3). This is particularly the case if you're targeting independent secondary school scholarships as you'll be wanting grade 4 or 5 on at least one if not both instruments or that being the target for the end of Yr6 even if not actually passed at the time of interview.

[ConstantastheNorthernStar]

@dancinginthewind Thank you - I wasn't really thinking in those terms yet, as we have an outstanding girls' state secondary literally round the corner, but I definitely would like her to make enough progress when she's young so that she can play in ensembles as she gets older. I don't think she is a musical prodigy but she's doing well with piano, so I would hope she would be at grade 4/5 by the end of primary - that's a grade a year, which seems reasonable.

@R41nb0wR0se and @thirdfiddle Thank you for the pep talks! I feel a bit more confident about the whole thing. Violin here we come!

[horseymum]

There are heaps of resources on the Benedetti foundation website on bow hold, left hand , rhythm etc which can help you support her too. Even better if she can get to a live session at some point, they're really inspiring and start from real beginners upwards.

[ilovesushi]

I would go for it now as she is keen. At that age my DC had loads of hobbies. As they got older they started to focus more heavily on one or two. DD is 13 and dropped her second instrument last year, as she was too stretched and couldn't give it enough time.