What do your dancers eat for breakfast?

[montenana]

DD does a lot of ballet, 5 hours per week.
Since starting secondary school she has refused to eat breakfast. I've tried cajoling, making anything she wants but since september she has got worse, not better.

on Saturday mornings she does 3 hours of ballet. This weekend she ate a bit of toast beforehand and only because I refused to take her until she'd eaten.

I don't believe she is trying to lose weight, she is naturally skinny and eats a lot for dinner (as many roast potatoes as she can get her hands on etc...) she just doesn't want breakfast.

I watched her class at the weekend - she has lost muscle, the other girls at her level are like athletes. Unless she builds her muscle back fast she's going out the back door at her level.

She won't eat eggs (outgrown egg allergy but can't stomach them).
She won't eat porridge or cereal.

She will have a hot chocolate and often gets a croissant when she gets to school but that is a terrible breakfast imo but better than nothing?!

Any suggestions?
TIA

[katymac]

It's still early - could she have a ham sandwich or bacon roll at school?

Take something protein to class or eat it on the way? My car is generally littered with bowls with lids and spoons wrapped in tissues

[katymac]

& forget 'breakfast' food - anything works

Sausage roll? Ham & cheese pastie? Chicken drumstick? It really doesn't matter

[CAAKE]

Here are a couple of links. I'd make sure she reads these to understand that it's important to eat and fuel the body before dancing even though she doesn't feel like eating.

coveteur.com/2016/01/07/ballet-dancer-meals/

www.dancemagazine.com/breakfast-of-champions-2307004204.html

[montenana]

right I'm off to Tesco. amazing input thanks all so much

[katymac]

Why not take her to Tesco - give her a budget of £3 a day & ask her to work it out - min 20g of protein each day

Only do a week at a time

Control gives them power

[SueSueDonahue]

IF she wasn't losing muscle tone I would definitely say let her go on a hot chocolate and let her eat later.

Both my girls dance. One hates breakfast and can easily do a three hour class on nothing and then eat when she's hungry. She is happiest eating small meals slowly and frequently. It's not ideal but she just about manages it. She also has an outgrown egg allergy and has an on/off reaction to milk. She avoids all milk before ballet exams.

The little one is much younger but also does five hours a week. She likes warm breakfasts too, either pancakes or croissants or eggs in toast baskets. Or sausages.

I think your main two issues are 1) you are stressing about it, and she'll be picking that up and reacting to it. You have to back off (though I would be worried too because of 2)

2) she is losing muscle. For this, her ballet coaches really need to step up and help advise. If she is doing it at that level, she should be doing gym and stretching work too.

Does she play any other sport at school or outside? Would she also like gymnastics like the other girls in her class (I know, cost!)? Would she like something like running or physical like army cadets?

[Ollivander84]

Protein hot chocolate
https://m.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/protein-hot-chocolate/10926373.html

Or make a hot smoothie - oats, hot milk, banana, peanut butter, chocolate powder, whatever you can cram in

[AlexanderHamilton]

I guess to be fair 5 hours a week isn't very much. But the losing muscle is concerning.

[montenana]

She doesn't play any other sports except for 3 hours at school, she does extra curricular music & drama too, so there really isn't any more time in the week...

A few years ago she was doing about 8 hours of dance, and couldn't keep her weight up and was always tired. We cut out one set of classes (ballet/tap/modern) and it seemed to help a lot.

I am disappointed that the ballet school never touches on nutrition. It does include plenty of stretching & pilates. The weekend ballet is non syllabus "advanced training for talented students", entry via audition etc... so you would think they would cover nutrition. Think i'll have a word. I wonder if these schools are so worried about saying the wrong thing that they avoid it altogether.

[AlexanderHamilton]

Dd gets virtually nothing at vocational school either (though she will in 6th form).

I'd really reccomend that book.

[Love51]

I was going to suggest getting her dance teacher to have a word. Although someone I know who danced at a high level says she basically survived on cigarettes and diet Coke at that stage, but I assume that isn't what she's advising the youngsters. Dance teachers word may carry more weight than mum's.

[soupforbrains]

I attended full time ballet school for two terms (before realising that i was going to be fighting against my natural body type all the way and that I was happier being a competitive skater). When i was at the school the dancers would skip as many meals as they could get away with, without the staff noticing to keep as lean as possible. mostly they carried jars of honey with them, and if they felt faint due to low blood sugar would just dip a finger into the honey to 'keep them going'.

Equally the non-borders who were encouraged/forced by parents to eat meals often became bulemic as a result. However as she is not attending a full time dance school she should not have these issues.

With the low number of hours she is doing I would encourage her to eat more protein at her other meals to help with the muscle build and simply encourage her to eat whatever morsel she can stomach in the mornings.

There is a fallacy that not eating breakfast is incredibly bad for you. The truth is that skipping breakfast, or any other meal that you usually eat is bad for you because your body gets used to a routine and will expect that food however if you never eat breakfast then there is nothing wrong with that, so long as you are getting the right nutrients and calories in the food that you do eat then it's no problem.

[taxi4ballet]

When in vocational training and catering for herself a normal breakfast for my dd:

Coffee
Porridge or cereal and / or toast and marmite
Sometimes a glass of orange juice.
(and then a cereal bar or fruit during mid-morning break)

At home - any of the following:
Bacon sandwich
Giant bowl of porridge with brown sugar
Up to 3 weetabix with milk
Several rounds of toast & marmite
Two croissants with butter and jam

I remember observing her morning class once, and the teacher asking another dancer what she'd had for breakfast, as it was obvious she was tired and hadn't eaten anything. No, she hadn't eaten apparently, and the teacher gave her a thorough telling-off and emphasised how important it was.

It isn't easy dancing on a full stomach though, so perhaps your dd could get up earlier in the morning so breakfast has time to go down!

She does need to eat something - maybe a chewy bar or a banana? Croissants would be better than nothing. She could take something with her and eat that during a break - if it is 3 hours on a Saturday, then she should have one at some point. If she hasn't eaten it will really affect her energy levels, and she won't be able to perform to the best of her ability. She will also be at a much greater risk of injury - it happens far more often when they are tired.

I second AlexanderHamilton's book suggestion.

Could you have a word with the dance teacher, and ask them to tell the students that they need to eat breakfast? It really is important, and vocational schools do teach nutrition as part of the syllabus.

[NinahH]

Protein bars? My dd does 8 hours a week gymnastics, often no time to eat before an evening session so she takes a flapjack and eats dinner afterwards.

[Fintons]

OP, are you sure she has actually lost muscle tone rather than just not putting it on as she grows at the same rate as those who also do gymnastics?

I ask as if I'm honest 5hrs dance & 3hrs sport a week doesn't sound like much to me. The minimum timetabled you could do at our boarding school is 8hrs sport a week and if you did the maximum number of sports matches and clubs you could increase that to about 20+ hours a week all timetabled. And you could access sports facilities in your free time on Sunday on top of that.

I'd imagine most DC do 10-12 hours a week of sports and although there are hardly any overweight children I wouldn't say there are many whose appearance would make you think they were athletic. They just look normal.

Regarding the diet, the sceptical side of me wonders if they don't address it because actually most Pro dancers are required to have very extreme low calorie high protein diets? In the same way I'd imagine most modelling agencies choose to ignore the problem (correct me if I'm wrong on that?).

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

I know nothing about dancing but my H and DS are endurance athletes. According to them, the optimum time to have your protein, to build muscle, is within an hour of training.

DH is Ironman training and has been told by his sports scientist coach to do morning runs before eating. Some thing about improving the efficiency of your body in accessing energy.

[taxi4ballet]

Tinkly a morning run is aerobic exercise - ballet is steady anaerobic exercise so the advice given to your DH would not be applicable.

The type of muscle build necessary for dance would not be the same either - the need is for muscles to be long, lean and flexible, and for there to be both fast-twitch and slow-twitch responses.

actually most Pro dancers are required to have very extreme low calorie high protein diets? Actually no, it is recommended that pasta, rice and grains are included, and are necessary for stamina (and I've seen first-hand what happens to cake, biscuits and chocolate when it is left unattended near a group of dancers, it is like a plague of locusts has descended)

[katymac]

& what they eat also depends unpon metabolism

Some of DD's friends and colleagues eat very carefully, salads, loads of veg, high protein, low carb - DD and some others eat whatever isn't nailed down (like Taxi said) Pizza, Chips, enough cheese to smother a battleship and salad as an 'extra' rather than the meal - while I accept she will never be a Ballet dancer (hourglass figure) DD is so slim and is having some health problems because her fat to muscle ratio isn't 'normal' (low fat/high muscle)

Actually I agree with AlexanderHamilton, 5 hrs isn't that much to be seeing visible weight loss plus if she has had problems with tiredness before maybe some tests just to check things like Iron/Vit D might be worthwhile

[dodobookends]

My adult dc is a professional dancer but not dancing currently, and she eats a lot less now than she did when in full-time training/performance mode. We worked out she used to eat over 3000 calories a day.

[montenana]

OP, are you sure she has actually lost muscle tone rather than just not putting it on as she grows at the same rate as those who also do gymnastics?
maybe. she just looked so scrawny compared to many of the others who were "solid" and imo much better at holding the positions. I've been telling her all term she'll lose weight - muscle - if she doesn't eat more/better and that's exactly what's happened.

you've all reassured me, 5 hours isn't that much (it's the 3 hours on saturday on an empty stomach that freak me out. she has some grapes in the 10 minute break and is ravenous for those).

from lunchtime to 7pm she eats plenty and eats a generally good diet. It's just the long period without food that i am so uncomfortable with.

i've never forced my dcs to eat anything and never would. I can see how that is a slippery slope into a bad relationship with food / control issues.

i'll get her the book suggested (thank you) and insist she has some protein before and after dancing, whatever form that comes in. I like the 20g rule - she can look into it and decide how.

[Chrys2017]

20g of protein per day is not enough. The 'standard' RDA are 34 grams of protein per day for girls ages 9 to 13 and 46 grams of protein each day for teen girls ages 14 to 18. It also states that active girls may need additional protein to maintain or repair muscle tissue after physical activity.

[katymac]

i Thought we were talking about 20g for breakfast before exercising? & the same after irrespective of how much for her other meals

I know DD's minimum was a measured 20g 3 times a day plus what ever else she ate - I think now it's instinctive to some extent

[Chrys2017]

@katymac That sounds more like it.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

what about hot bread rolls? those ones you buy half baked and then do for 5 minutes in the oven or something? or if you had a bread maker then nice fresh hot bread?

[ilovesushi]

pancakes? They are a faff but if you make them yourself you can add an extra egg yolk and full fat milk to the mixture to up the protein and calories. My kids (much younger) are the same about not wanting to eat in the morning.