Dance schools - how inclusive are yours / should they be?

[lottieandmia]

Where I live there are several dance schools and one in particular has about 500 students at least but the majority of them are not allowed to take part in shows. The principal opened another school branch for festival work which was just for the chosen few who were good enough to get into JAs and would win at completions etc. She then never looked in on the other children at the original school. My friend whose child was at this school complained that they would be asked to contribute money for the festival girls to pay for their transport to competitions!

I am not sure how widespread this sort of thing is? At your dc's dance schools how inclusive is it? I think it must be disheartening for a child who feels they are just making up the numbers.

[lornaballet]

It's a funny idea though isn't it? I'm glad parent heights (thankfully not weight too, they only needed the children's weights) and occupations are no longer asked for.
I wonder if they ask for them, in what I'd imagine to be, the longer, more detailed White Lodge, actual ballet school application forms? As I'm only talking about their associate scheme.

[AlexanderHamilton]

It's the same form for Associates as it is for White Lodge. There is just an extra box to tick if you wish to be considered for White Lodge

[lornaballet]

I didn't see the tick box, but my child is only applying for the first year of JAs, so far from the correct age (that would be mids?)

[AlexanderHamilton]

Yes, Mids is year 7 onwards.

[TrollMummy]

There is a certain amount of favouritism at DDs dance school where the same few are always selected for solos or for leads in group dances. The argument is that it's all about winning and so the dance school need to put the strongest dancers in front to stand the best chance. However, this also means that these dancers have the greatest opportunity to improve further due to increased experience and exposure to competition. If some of the other dancers with good ability also had the opportunity to gain experience then it could be argued that they would also improve. It's a difficult situation for dance teachers but you can understand why students and parents get frustrated by this.

[Crumbs1]

Ours was very inclusive but allowed for high achievers. From age three they were all in together. At shows they just dressed up and skipped around sweetly. By grade 1 there was an obvious ability range, some girls danced with older class, they started doing a double grade class so,danced at grade 1 with everyone (class of about 12) and then 3 of them stayed on to begin grade 2 etc.
As they got higher some classes were by invitation- so ISTD intermediate in addition to grade 6/7. Pointe was by invitation too but by this stage most girls were competent and class ages were mixed.
Auditions for RB, CSB, ENYB were encouraged for everyone. Shows included everyone but roles were differentiated so those who were less ambitious took part but maybe didn't do solos.
My daughter did grade 8 at 14, danced with BRB and dances still at university. She wasn't held back by dancing alongside the dumplings and tone deaf.

[lottieandmia]

Yes I completely agree. At the dance school I'm talking about the favourites get selected early on at about 6 to do private lessons. So of course they are going to get better and better than their peers who are not selected for this special treatment. Some dancers improve as they get older. To be written off at 6 is a shame.

[lottieandmia]

And as I said, the younger siblings of the select are automatically put into the elite programme before it's clear how good they are.

[lottieandmia]

X posts that was to troll mummy

[Crumbs1]

In fairness, not at the time knowing anything at all about classical ballet, the dance teacher said after about three weeks of my three year old skipping round the room "She's good you know" I laughed at her and questioned how 'good' a three year old could be. She said it was about the way they moved to music, their posture and body shape. I thought it was ridiculous but fourteen years on and she was offered a place to dance with BRB company (which she turned down in favour of a degree).

[lornaballet]

Yes, they offer solos to potentially talented pupils from 5 years here at one of the schools. My daughter had privates from five years (different school then), and now, at 8 years, has two a week.
They really do help progression, but can widen the gap even more between the once-a-weekers.
You can tell the difference between those who do something extra; private lessons, extra classes and rehearsing at home.

She wasn't held back by dancing alongside the dumplings and tone deaf.

The dumplings

[lottieandmia]

Crumbs - I think sometimes you can definitely spot potential at 3 but some children are late developers and it comes later and is evident later. So it's a shame if they're written off. Also when I was a dancer many moons ago, there was one teacher who preferred shorter cutesy students and one who like more willowy girls. I was not particularly short but was extremely flexible and I always got distinctions in my exams but I was only ever chosen by one of the teachers for festival work.

[Crumbs1]

Lottie - yes of course, you only need to think of Darcey Bussell. I don't think my daughter's dance teacher ever wrote children off but she did spot those she felt could learn more quickly. I don't think it takes any great talent or skill to spot the tone deaf, awkward dumplings who are suffering ballet because of parental pressure. We actively discouraged ballet but it happened anyway and even now she transforms if she hears the right music. She always did go off into her own little twirling and jumping world whenever the opportunity arose - she just sort of 'comes alive' when dancing. Nowadays it can be a bit risqué sometimes, but she still gets lost somewhere.

[lornaballet]

I don't think Darcey was a late developer or written off. She always had the guidance of her mother, an ex White Lodge student, and obviously managed to gain a place herself, no easy feat even back then.

[Crumbs1]

No, you're right, Darcey wasn't written off but didn't go to White Lodge until 13 years.
Is dumpling an offensive term for those little girls whose toddler tummy has persisted and grown with them? It feels kinder than 'fat girls' - who should still be encouraged to dance but who perhaps lack the agility and grace of their willowier classmates.

[lornaballet]

I don't know. I tend to be very pc and wouldn't use 'dumpling' or 'fat' to describe anybody. I don't think the technical ability and grace (or lack of) of the dancer is necessarily connected to their size, rather that they only take class once a week or don't aspire to become ballet dancers.

[PrincessHairyMclary]

DDs dance school has a full range of classes, you have to audition for competition team (festival), show choir (singers) and performance company (drama) and for particular roles in the biannual show which seems sensible as they are the areas performing to the public and is good practise for those wanting to be professionals. Private lessons are available to all although those in scholarships or comp team have some as part of their arrangement anyway.
The normal dance, singing and drama classes seem completely fair to me although obviously those who are dancing 12+ hours a week are better than those who don't. My 7 year old has cut down to just her favourite 4 classes and notices some are better than her now despite attending since she was 2 but that's to be expected.

[AlexanderHamilton]

Although Darcy didn't go to White Lodge until age 13 she did attend Arts Ed (now called Tring Park) another prestigious dance school, prior to that.

[JessKM]

As a former ballet dancer I was keen for my kids to share my passion, my two eldest DD's have danced since age 2 and have had multiple amazing opportunities and still continue too.

My youngest DD was essentially kicked out of her dance classes as she has an 'unmanageable disability' that was their wording - she has no physical disabilities, she has a central line\hickman in her chest which would not affect her ability to dance what so ever...not at the level she was at.

She, at 6 years old, was told to stop wearing leotards like the other girls because her 'wires were freaking the other girls out'...that was from an adult, to a child, publicly in front of everyone in the class. Unkind comments followed and then we were called in to say essentially it was best for every one of she weren't to come back as she couldn't possibly progress in her condition. She was there for enjoyment not to join a touring company!!

Amazes me in the 21st century how uninclusive these things can actually be. We tried to take her to another company but she was mortified and her experience was ruined. This what inclusion should be about!!

[lottieandmia]

Jess - that is dreadful. Truly awful. I'm sure it's illegal too - DDA?

it really makes me cross because paying customers should expect to be treated the same. Of course I get that some kids will be more invested in their dancing than others. But if they want to learn I think they should have the same supervision and help.

When I was at dance school in the 80s/90s the dance teachers would get away with saying horrible things. They would say that a student was fat in front of them, looked like 'insert insult of choice' and tell one person to stand up whilst they were picked apart. I think now they do have to be more careful.

[JessKM]

I know lottie, disgraceful and so hurtful for no reason at all! Technically my DD isn't registered disabled - do DDA doesn't apply to her. It's the fine line between medical condition and disability.

Had she really wanted to go back we would have fought til we were black and blue...but she was disheartened, embarrassed and hurt

[lornaballet]

I'd have contacted RAD, ISTD or whoever the teacher was registered with to make a complaint, Jess. That's shocking treatment your daughter received. I hope she's found somewhere else to continue dancing.

[inarki]

Yes some schools will only accept festival pupils by selection or audition, and yes understandable for those schools with a reputation to uphold. However, I do prefer an inclusive school allowing all the chance to compete.
I know of a couple of happy, smaller, schools where they have several children who are immensely enjoying competing, and achieving medals,in the novice sections and in some of the larger group dances.
It's always worth a parent asking about private lessons and comps if they're not offered, if that's what they're interested in doing. The performance and confidence skills gained can be very useful.

[TrollMummy]

Also some schools do not audition for competition/ festivals but students are still selected by the teachers based on ability and whether they are doing exams and a certain number of lessons. I guess in larger schools it is necessary to limit the numbers and it is unfair to allow someone dancing just an hour a week over a more committed dancer. As long as the rules are applied fairly in all cases it's ok but seems this is not always the case.

[Megabeth]

JessKM,
That's shocking. I would be leaving negative reviews on the Facebook page and Google. There's a big dance school where we live that enters festivals and the seniors get places at Performing arts colleges. My daughter doesn't attend the school but we watched their annual show and there was a little girl performing in a wheelchair. I think she was in the Primary class.
My daughter attends a very small dance school now so there's no competitions or pecking order.
I've heard good​ things about some local schools where they do well at festivals and getting students into professional training but there's​ always students there that aren't being put forward for exams.
There will come a time when my daughter needs more hours of ballet but I'm reluctant to move because the classes she takes now have less than 10 students.