Violin lessons - is it fair to let younger sibling start?

[jem1980]

DD1 has just started private violin lessons at age 7.5 (September birthday, School Year 2). Her younger brother is 5, almost 6 (School Year 1) and is very keen to learn the violin too. I would happily start him off with lessons from, say, September, but I am worried this is unfair to DD1 as he will be starting at a younger age than she was. Also, it might make it feel less "special" for her. However, I don't want to disadvantage my son by delaying his lessons when he seems clearly ready to learn. Help please! I am an only child myself, so I am quite new to sibling politics... The difficulty really is that DC2 is almost 2 yrs younger than DD1, but there is only one school year between them so he does generally get opportunities at a slightly younger age than she did. I also have a 3-Y-O but she is not currently in this equation.

[DeWee]

Jem
I don't know how my parents could have stopped problems, although I don't think they helped. They tended to stop in awe at my db doing things at a young age, when looking back he just had the opportunity at a younger age-for example we got our first computer when I was 10 and he was 6yo. They used to wax lyrical about how amazing it was to see a 6yo competant on the computer. Made me feel there was no point doing it, so I didn't try. Now, of course, my dc had surpassed what he could do age 6yo before they were 3yo, and I can see it isn't ability, it was opportunity. But I think the amazement was a natural one that we all have when we see our tiny children doing things we didn't do.
It also was pretty much everything I did too. He wanted to do it, so started younger, it went with gifts too. I can now, with my own dc, see how that happens with 3dc. The older one gets it, it's special, so you say to the middle you have to wait until the same age, but then it feels unfair that dc3 is the only one without it.

I think I would worry more because your older one has just started. Then they will feel that they're both older and started sooner that they should be better. If they started at the same time, or the older one had more of a head start I would imagine it could be less of an issue.

If you do start dc2, then I would say try not to compare. Never say "dc2 is doing so well because they are only X age". Because that knocks dc1-because they can't compete. And don't say "dc1 is better because they're older" either. Again something that dc1 can't do anything about-or dc2 for that matter.
Also if one starts the practice, the other can't start until the other has finished unless they're working at something together. I had huge problems in that I would start practicing, and that would remind db, and he would start, which did make practices hard when you're listening for tune. I was called mean for asking if he could wait until I'd finished, which meant I ended up restricting practicing to when he wasn't around, and that wasn't that often.

I think the big thing is to make sure they each have their own thing. It is quite natural for the younger to want whatever the older has-but to me it's important that you do have your own niche in your family.

You could discuss it in a casual was with dc1. Not asking "do you mind" but throwing the idea out and seeing how they react. Not to give them the decision, and you phrase it so you're not asking them, but to see how carefully you need to tread.
If you say "You're enjoying the violin so much, do you think dc2 will want to play soon?" and they go silent, or get upset, you need to be much more careful than if they say "we can play together. That'll be fun."

Sometimes with my dc I have been very pleased when I've mentioned to dc1 that dc2 is thinking about joining , and dc1's reaction has been along the lines of "good, I can't wait."
But I do protect dc1 in that she has her thing that I won't let dc2 do. I'll let her do a similar class, but not the same. Neither of them know this, I've just said to dc2 when she asked that she couldn't do it due to another committment at present. And same with dc2 and dc3.

I think it's important that they do have the space to be themselves, and not just X's sibling-which is important for the younger as well as the older.

[WildCherryBlossom]

Our DD has recently started violin too. She is also in year 2. We have told her brother (currently in reception) that he can start music lessons in year 2 as well. That seems fair to us. Partly it's because we think they need a certain maturity to fit practising in along with homework, and also the cost, if I am honest. There are loads of things they would love to do but we want to make sure they are committed before we sign up for the expense of lessons and associated accessories.

[JulieMichelleRobinson]

Wow, Flowery - that's good.

My 6yo student (same year group, started September) could probably learn the grade 1 stuff but I don't think she could handle the exam situation yet. We're doing medals with a view to grade 1 next Easter or maybe summer. Plays beautifully, though, just a bit shy.

[flowery]

Yes, he's doing well. It does help that I also play, so can supervise his practice very effectively, which means he obviously improves more each week than a child who is much more left to their own devices in between lessons.

He's also in a junior strings group, which he really enjoys, and has done a concert with them which he got a lot out of.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Hi - I'm finding this discussion very interesting as DS1 and DS2 learn 2 instruments each and neither would "allow" the other to learn "their" instruments! (In theory as I would override their protests if the other ds was really keen.) One thing I did learn, though, is that when they are very young it's sometimes worth waiting a term just make sure they are still interested in that particular instrument, or whether they like the idea of having music lessons more generally but aren't sure yet what's available. The violin teacher will understand if you wait a few more months and it won't hurt DS1 to hear DD1 practising!

[flowery]

I actually learned the viola because my brother was learning the violin at the time. I wasn't enjoying learning the oboe so kept nicking his violin and teaching myself . Mum thought it might be better to learn viola so I didn't tread on his toes too much. Soon afterwards he gave up the violin so I pinched it permanently and play both instead.

He was going to give up anyway as he wasn't enjoying it but it is a valid point I guess, about toe-treading.

I was 12 at the time though - I'd say at a younger age learning violin first might be better, then considering moving over. Viola is good though because you can get into orchestras much sooner and are always in demand, although repertoire more limited.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Yes, size of the instrument is definitely an issue! DS2, then aged 8 was very interested in the double bass. Tried a mini one and still nearly toppled over with it. Wisely chose cello instead and loves it, although every so often utters ominous comments about moving up to double bass when he's a bit bigger. His idea of how soon that might be is rather different to mine...

[flowery]

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I tried a mini double bass once (all 5'3 1/2" of me) and nearly toppled over too.

[jem1980]

Thanks for all the great advice, everyone.
I think you are right about harnessing it while he's keen, flowery; and also about the instrument each. He is currently pretending his teddy is a violin and practising alongside DD. I think he will need the same size though - I had him hold DD's to (inexpertly) size him, and he held the scroll with his arm slightly bent. Hope your DS gets on well with his Grade 1, flowery :-)
I think if he is still keen over the summer hols we will start his lessons from September. I currently feel like if we don't then we will be missing the opportunity for him to follow his musical interest. I have asked DD1 about it and she actually seems happy about the idea of him starting, so I think maybe I am projecting hypothetical "adult" worries onto her thinking that she might consider it unfair.
DC3 is only 3 so we will have a slight gap before needing 3 sets of music lessons at least!

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Also, when they are ready, they can both join in with a beginners' string group and have a lot of fun playing with other kids. (Though hopefully not looking covetously at the double bass!)

[SomeSunnySunday]

Maybe the dynamics of the relationship between your children mean that it won't matter as much, but I remember being really devastated at a similar age when my (16 months younger) sister was allowed to learn "my" instrument (we both played piano, which I wasn't possessive about at all, but was about my second instrument which I loved). She was good at it, and it put me right off. I felt that it was so unfair, in an illogical small child way. I'm now determined that apart from piano / recorder, my DCs will play different instruments!

[jem1980]

I think my computer hadn't loaded up half those replies before I sent that last one, oops!
Lol, LooseatTheSeams and UptoapointLordCopper!!! He does like the double bass but I figured it was a logistical no-no :-)
flowery, the point about moving over to viola later is a good one - also, it might suit DS as he does like the tone of a viola and isn't as much as a limelight-hogger as DD1 (am assuming viola parts are often less showy but this may be completely wrong!)
WildCherryBlossom agree re: cost and commitment issues - neither child does any "expensive" hobbies before this - just things like Brownies, football etc. Commitment-wise, they are both very good up to now at sticking with things they choose.
DeWee your advice has been very, very helpful. I think you've made me realise how delicate children are with what we say to them, and how saying one thing to one DC can mean something else to the other. I will be careful how I praise them. Also, I am thinking that if there is a problem whereby DC2 overtakes DD1, or makes her feel like she is not as good, I will have to address the issue. She is currently confident and excels at school in most areas, so I am not worried at the moment that she will feel like she's not good at anything.
SomeSunnySunday - did you feel like that as soon as you found out that your sister was going to learn your favourite instrument, or did that feeling come once she had started? Just wondering, as DD seems happy about the idea of DS learning violin, but don't know if that is likely to change.

[flowery]

Viola is less showy, yes, and there is a risk of getting boring parts in things. Anything waltzy the viola gets the "cha cha" of the "oom cha cha". Cellos get the "oom"!

But it has got the most beautiful tone (if I say so myself...)

[RaspberryLemonPavlova]

somesunnysunday we tried that with DS2s second instrument and started him off on clarinet at the end of Year 2, to separate him from the situation with DS1 and the piano. However, the lure of brass was too strong and he ended up starting trombone 6 months after DS1 had switched from trumpet to trombone. I think it is possible to encourage difference but actually it is unfair to say the 'the flute is this DCs so you can't play it'. Instruments do 'choose the child'.

[SomeSunnySunday]

jem, I felt like that as soon as she started. I clearly remember sobbing the whole way home from school when I was told. And I as very jealous once she turned out to be good at it. But there was a lot of sibling rivalry between us anyway, and I felt generally threatened by my slightly younger but taller, prettier, better at everything sister (as I perceived it a a small child!) - if your DD seems fine with it there may be no issue.

[jem1980]

Oh dear, SomeSunnySunday - that doesn't sound fun :-( Yes, DD seems absolutely fine with the idea, and she enjoys DS participating with her practice, having a hold / turn of her violin etc. She specifically asked whether she would have to share her violin, so I think that is her worry (we have decided that is a definite no-no for us). Maybe the fact that they are different genders helps with the rivalry thing. Somesunnysunday, we had thought one of ours might choose brass, as DH plays and we already have a cornet and a trumpet, but neither of them has asked to learn. It is a good point about not saying that a particular instrument is theirs - actually that would seem v unfair to DC2 who would always get 2nd pick.

[jem1980]

I meant that 2nd part for raspberyylemonpavlova, oops - need coffee :-)