What would you change/keep and why?

[Chala86]

I've been umming and ahhing about starting this thread for awhile. Hopefully it won't descend into bickering. I don't want to know how you voted. I don't want to know why you voted.
I want to ask how would you like to UK and it's relationship with Europe and the rest of the world to change? What would you keep? And why?
No judgement.

[StripeyMonkey1]

Cocory - I have certainly veered onto non Brexit subjects on here but the OP asked it to be non-real-world. You have my real world answers in my first couple of posts.

The reality is that there is no or excruciatingly little benefit to leaving the EU. There are a lot of downsides, economically, socially and internationally.

There might however be some benefits in Theresa May's government over that of David Cameron and she will have a lot of scope to set new policies. Unfortunately, from what we have heard from May so far, and I am particularly thinking about the nasty (thankfully now dropped) proposal for foreigner lists and the sneering at 'citizens of the world', I am not too optimistic. Some rhetoric about workers on company boards is more encouraging.

Your list is fine by me. I do however question whether we will manage to achieve some of the loftier ideals when we are scrabbling for trade deals and struggling to fund basic services such as the NHS and education ourselves. According to some (quite possibly not you Cocory, but sadly some of your fellow Leave voters) we need to defend our own 'kith and kin' (a Banks quote) and the white working class first.

[Peregrina]

No, the increase in Doctors so we can send them out to the world won't happen. But I think it's good to have some ideals. If we didn't, we'd still be doing the equivalent of sending kids down coal mines, or up chimneys. (Not now, because no coal mines left, but I hope people get the idea.)

[Corcory]

Nether are the increase in training Doctors or proportional representation but hay ho!
What did you say Chala86? No judgement!
Another thing I would like to see change is stopping the live export of animals.

[smallfox2002]

There is nowhere to start with that but lets give it a go.

We don't have EU regulations on the size and shape of fruit that we eat, in fact many of the standards are imposed by supermarkets because consumers don't buy mishappen looking goods. This won't change if we leave the EU.

Seasonal eating is fine, but this isn't the 1950s and you'll find that lots of people have become used to the choice that they have and will still demand it. Leaving the EU will not effect this.

The African nations thing? Well it appears to be based on some misplaced sense of philanthropy, these are also complex deals which take away from your other points. African nations also aren't just sitting waiting for us to start trading with them, they are already sending their produce to other countries with contracts to fulfil to do so. Your point about foreign aid is worrying.

Exports all over the world? What would you like us to export? If hard Brexit occurs many of our manufacturing bases will move to the continent and without passporting access for finance we will lose one of our major exports.

The foriegn ownership is nothing to do with the EU either.

Farm subsidies are unlikely to change, look who is in power but again the CAP was due to change and be administered by national governments from 2020, so that change was coming anyway.

So most of the things you want aren't to do with the EU, or not made more or less possible by leaving.

Great.

[Corcory]

I'd like to see us eat more of our own produce, our own apples for instance in all shapes and sizes and become much more seasonal eaters as we used to be and not see as much out of season fruit and veg flown in as we do now.
I'd like to see us improve trade with third world countries such as these in Africa who need help to improve their standard of living and reduce the reliance on foreign aid.
I'd like to see us increase our exports massively to all over the world including the EU.
I'd like to see a reduction in the farming subsidies for highly productive arable farms and sporting estates. I'd also like to see an investigation into foreign ownership of land and real estate especially in London and the sporting estates of Scotland and it's impact on the price of property.

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Noeuf you wrote that you would like British benefit claimants to do some of the jobs that migrant workers currently do. I merely highlighted that most british benefit claimants already have a job. I'm sorry if you think that is 'knee jerk'. It's actually of the hardest myths to shift about 'benefits Britain'.

[whatwouldrondo]

I completely agree with stripey and others aspirations for global progress. One of my reasons for voting remain is I think that that a united EU standing up for our shared political values was important for the world. I worry about the loss of a balancing force between a US which even under Hilary will continue with self interested policies influenced by the neocons /neoliberals like the Asian pivot which has helped make the South China Sea into a potential flashpoint. So I aspired to be able to stand up with my neighbours for our shared liberal values to make a positive difference in the world and improve the life of others. I have seen that in action in the countries of South East Asia, helping people to get a greater say in their own government, as well as making concrete contribtions to economic development.

[StripeyMonkey1]

I would support an electoral change to proportional representation.

I would emphatically not support a change to more "direct democracy" Arron Banks style. According to the New Statesman he now wants to set up a People's Movement.

"He wants to convert Leave.EU’s hundreds of thousands of followers into an online army, much like Beppe Grillo’s Five Star Movement in Italy, a force that transcends conventional party politics and the left-right divide. He envisages it as an exercise in direct democracy, a forum where people can post, debate and vote on ideas – and then embrace them in such numbers that politicians are compelled to respond."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/10/arron-banks-man-who-bought-brexit

[Chala86]

I think that was one of the biggest issues with the referendum. People who voted leave as a protest against austerity, against the 'establishment' and the elite, etc did so because they didn't believe their votes would count. This is probably because, for many, votes in general election count for very little if you live in a safe seat area. Maybe if our voting system had been given an overhaul before the referendum to make people's votes count, they may have been less likely to vote out in protest.
I would definitely like to see a change in our voting system so people feel that their voices are heard.

[Valentine2]

I think it is relevant to post it here. My future is being screwed up by people who will absolutely totally use "experts" when bringing down a ceiling that has asbestos. But these happy voters didn't consider that they were voting to change the economic and constitutional basis of this country (not my words, copied from some comment as it made so much sense in so few words).

uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-vote-regret-leave-margin-victory-2016-10

[StripeyMonkey1]

Chala86 - I agree with your list. Of course, there is no reason why this could not be achieved without Brexit (and we might well have more money to do some of the things on that list if we were not to Brexit), but that is another point entirely.

With regard to perfect fruit and vegetables, I particularly dislike it when the visual perfection is combined with little or no taste. I understand that the nutritional value of a lot of fruit and veg has declined significantly too, from what it used to be. I wonder in practice however, whether people will want to buy the small apples and the peaches with marks on the skin? I would personally, if they were tastier and juicer but I am not sure that this is what would sell best in the supermarkets. We might well find uniformity of shape and colour in fruit and veg to be a food equivalent of skinny models selling more clothes - people buy what they think looks good.

[Chala86]

Sadly I don't this Ireland's future was ever a focal point in the referendum. I do hope a compromise can be reached where the peace can be kept.

[SouthWestmom]

Figment what a knee jerk silly comment.
Of course someone already working shouldn't change jobs.

[Chala86]

Stripey I agree with your ideals internationally. I would add the right to an education to your list. Everyone should get that opportunity to learn and to use their education.
With the EU and Brexit in mind, I would've preferred change from within, and most of the change would need to come from our own government. I would want:

• for our government to take responsibility for their decisions rather than laying the blame elsewhere (immigration and the EU).
  
• less waste. I can't abide the rules for perfect fruit and the throwaway fish quotas. When so many don't have enough to eat it's depressing to know that so much is simply thrown out.
  
• more investment into clean energy and research into energy storage. I worry for our environment right now and would hate it if we do away with the laws already in place to protect it.
  
• to keep anything that protects workers rights. This is another one that concerns me deeply. It would be depressing to step backwards. I would rather these laws were strengthened.
  
• loopholes that enable companies to legally avoid their tax to be closed.
  

These are just a few. There are so many things I'd like to change or improve but it's all money. So many places would benefit from investment and improvements to infrastructure. Unfortunately it's down to our own government and not the EU. It's nice to dream though.

[Peregrina]

Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace.

I agree. I am appalled that no one appeared to have thought through the consequences of a No vote to NI when the Referendum legislation was being drawn up. If violence breaks out again I will hold May's Government criminally negligent.

[smallfox2002]

"Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace. I hope that the other 25 EU countries do not punish Eire for a decision made by England and Wales."

26 EU countries, and really, blaming the EU for any problems Ireland might have in the future because of brexit negotiations is utterly facetious. The responsibility to ensure Ireland is OK in peace terms lies with the UK, because of course it is Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and not Eire where the problems will occur.

In terms of trade Ireland may do very well out of hard brexit. Low corporation tax with an educated and English speaking population would set it out as a very convenient location for US banks and corporations to have their European headquarters, rather than the UK.

[smallfox2002]

It isnt the EU that will insist on a hard border in Ireland, its our government.

If we leave the customs union as looks likely Ireland will have to have a hard border and there will be no free trade agreement.

"Most EU migrants do work, but there are plenty who claim in work benefits like child tax credits or housing benefit."

Yes but EU immigrants are net tax contributors overall.

In fact any cost to the exchequer based argument for brexit is fundamentally flawed because the costs of not being part of the single market in terms of reduced tax take is far, far greater than the cost of paying any benefits to EU immigrants.

[ReallyTired]

"Being part of the EU, Ireland wouldn't be able to negotiate its own free trade deal with us. "

I hope that something can be negiogate do avoid a return of the troubles. If the EU is so intransitant to want a hard boarder in Ireland then that is all the more reason to leave.

If other EU countries are happy to have migrants turn up without a job and expect benefits that is up to them. Most EU migrants do work, but there are plenty who claim in work benefits like child tax credits or housing benefit.

Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace. I hope that the other 25 EU countries do not punish Eire for a decision made by England and Wales.

[smallfox2002]

"Yet we allow any EU citzen to rock up to the uk and claim benefit"

Less likely to claim benefits than British born.

You realise there are lots of Brits on benefits in other EU countries? Far many more in Germany, France and others than there nationals are here.

Being part of the EU, Ireland wouldn't be able to negotiate its own free trade deal with us.

So if anything your ill informed.

The rest of your post is simply bizarre.

[ReallyTired]

I want a shake up of our immigration system. At the moment we are far too harsh to non EU migrants/ visitors. Mary brown has been condemned to death because her sister Martha has been denied a visa.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-37656377

Yet we allow any EU citzen to rock up to the uk and claim benefit.

I want us to have agreements for freedom of movement between certain countries like Ireland. I hope that the uk can have a free trade deal with Ireland to preserve the good Friday agreement even if the rest of the eu does not want a trade deal with us.

I feel that freedom of movement within the single market needs to be reformed to stop any country from being completely flooded with foreigners. Swiss citzens want restrictions on freedom of movement. Sadly I don't think the eu are prepared to negiogate on freedom of movement.

I would like the uk to set up agreements with wealthy English speaking countries to make sure that people who marry a British citzens can settle in the U.K. I don't think there is much moviation for someone from Australia or Canada or New Zealand to have a sham marriage. They aren't coming to the uk to escape poverty. I hope such an agreement could be bilateral if the numbers of Brits wanting to marry abroad is balanced by those who come here from other countries.

[prettybird]

I'd like to see a less austerity driven approach - a more Keynesian approach with capital infrastructure projects to provide stimulus during the "bad" years (with a sovereign wealth fund built up during the "good" years rather than tax cuts for the rich)

I'd like to see a more welcoming approach to immigrants - especially students. My country has a practically static - but aging - population so needs young healthy immigrants.

I'd like to see workers' rights protected - as well as human rights.

I'd like to see Climate Change and environmental targets worked towards wholeheartedly in the West - while recognising that the developing countries do need more time to achieve the same goals. After all, we're only talking about replacing ourfridges and factories we've already got our mod cons/built our economies - they still need to get a fridge in the first place.

I'd like to see the power of big corporations curtailed: they shouldn't be able to sue governments if their democratically elected governments affect their profits, particularly vis-à-vis the public sector.

This is what I'd like. The likelihood of it happening though, under May or even whoever replaces her, however......

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Noeuf you realise don't you that most benefit claimants (British or otherwise) are already in work? The problem is that their wages are too low to live on or cover housing costs.

[SouthWestmom]

Id like to see an immigration policy applied to all countries and not just favouring Europeans. I would like it based on skills we need and for it to be realistic. For example, easy to apply for entry for seasonal workers.

I'd like to see British benefits claimants encouraged to do some of the jobs immigrants currently fill as people get older, move area etc and for wages to allow this (that's not really an EU thing I guess)

[StripeyMonkey1]

That's a good one Peregrina. I'd also like to see elite engineering technical schools of the type that exist in Germany and France to produce more really top level engineers in the country with a view to designing and making more high tech products here. The knock on, in my ideal world, would be more manufacturing jobs for all (elite is not a dirty word - the more excellence we have in the UK the better).

Of course, any graduates would also need to have the ability to work here post graduation or they would just move abroad on qualification, so maybe it could be combined with some science/technology sector funding?

[Peregrina]

If we start training more doctors, (and nurses and midwives) I would like to see us training sufficient numbers so that we can have enough to export them to other countries; thus giving something back to the countries of the Commonwealth. Ideally, I would like to see exchanges of medical personnel, so that we could learn from each other.

But since Hunt and Rudd tied this to their anti-foreigner rhetoric at the Tory party conference, I think this is wishful thinking on my behalf.