What can we do to stop politicians lying to us in future campaigns?

[OneArt]

I understand that politicians make false promises, stretch the truth, cherry pick the information they present, and so on. That's par for the course.

But it now seems to be widely acknowledged that the Leave campaigners lied. As in, they made numerous statements which were factually incorrect and which they must have known to be so.

Even more shocking, it has been claimed that they deliberately spread rumours attacking the integrity of people who disagreed with them. See the video below.

//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0dosmKwrAbI&app=desktop

We can't have a democracy in which our votes are based on lies.

I feel much more passionately about this than the actual outcome of the referendum! Can anyone tell me what I can do to stop this happening again in future campaigns? I've already written to my MP.

[mathanxiety]

You cannot blame a system that you have not engaged with or educated yourself about so you could make a fully formed decision.
In a nutshell.

And your post (and MustStop's) are spot on wrt how the EU works and the implication of how uninformed much of the anti-EU stance was.

There is no 'in theory' about it. It is as remote from you as you choose to keep it.

[mathanxiety]

..remote from you = from the UK

[larrygrylls]

I did challenge the process. I think Brussels is too remote and I want my leaders somewhere I can easily get to.

We had a democratic challenge and chose to change it. It is a shame the soi disant experts cannot accept the democratic will of the people.

[mathanxiety]

I want my leaders somewhere I can easily get to

That is asinine.

[larrygrylls]

Math,

I know, the people just aren't clever enough to handle this democracy lark. Far better to leave it to people like you who will make far better decisions in our best interest and tell us when our silly little ideas are getting a bit asinine.

The breathtaking arrogance of it......

[mathanxiety]

But what do you mean by 'somewhere I can easily get to'?

Do you understand what voting is about?

[Kummerspeck]

I live in an area which voted very heavily for OUT. I have spoken to a few people this week to see what they thought of the suggestion that the result should be cancelled because of this and all have been appalled. Nobody had believed things absolutely. One chap told me "I may be poor but I'm not stupid and people shouldn't assume I am"

[mathanxiety]

There is so much paranoia in your remarks, Larry. Do you understand what civil servants do for a living? Judges, even?

Plus the suggestion that close proximity is necessary for democracy makes me think what you have in mind when you say democracy is something secured and/or inflicted by the pointy end of a pitchfork.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

Can I just mention larry's comment from this morning?

"The way to deal with lying is to challenge it with facts and data."

Interestingly, research has shown that's the worst way to challenge myths/lies: if you say, '£350m for the NHS is nonsense because blah blah facts', people just hear the '£350m for the NHS' bit and forget the rest.

(Your Myths May Vary)

[larrygrylls]

Math,

Most democracies allow one physical access to one's mp. In additional the right to peacefully protest a grievance in front of one's lawmakers is considered an important tradition in the uk.

You keep questioning my understanding of the system. I understand it pretty well thanks. Another facet of a properly finctionjng democracy is that it is comprehensible to ordinary citizens.

However I think this is tough for you to understand as you probably read kafka's trial as an instruction manual rather than s dystopia.

[mathanxiety]

What is to stop you peacefully protesting in Brussels?

What is there to stop you rocking up to your MEP's office and saying your piece? Or writing or phoning, for that matter?

Where in all of this fatuous nonsense does the concept of voting come in?

[mathanxiety]

And please share how you go about approaching your representative in the House of Lords.

[Just5minswithDacre]

The essential problem with this referendum is that none of the campaigners were standing for office.

So all either side could do was to passionately make their case for what a future in/out of the EU might involve/entail/offer.

They weren't in a position to make manifesto promises, unlike 'normal election' candidates.

Inevitably 'visions for the future' became blurred with undertakings. I'm not sure what could realistically be done.

Added to that you had the whole business of official and unofficial campaigns.

[Just5minswithDacre]

I live in an area which voted very heavily for OUT. I have spoken to a few people this week to see what they thought of the suggestion that the result should be cancelled because of this and all have been appalled. Nobody had believed things absolutely. One chap told me "I may be poor but I'm not stupid and people shouldn't assume I am"

And this.

The idea that low income = uneducated = not very bright = credulous media dupe is out of control.

[mathanxiety]

While you're at it, how about explaining the role of Arron Banks. You can begin by telling us who he represents, and follow that by illustrating how approachable he is.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

[BertrandRussell]

"did challenge the process. I think Brussels is too remote and I want my leaders somewhere I can easily get to."

What does this mean?

[BertrandRussell]

It would take me four an a half hours to drive to Brussels from where I live. There are lots of people in England who would take longer to get to London.

[WinnieTheW0rm]

Those people who would take over 4.5 hours to reach London, would then need further travelling time to reach Brussels. So if sounds like you just want to make it even harder for some.

Also, exactly where in Brussels does one demonstrate? And how do you split yourself to cover Strasbourg?

[larrygrylls]

Well, even if I live a long way from London, I can see my mp who gets to vote on laws. And the idea that most people would find it as easy to protest in Brussels as London demonstrates how far from the populace the Champagne socialists have become.

The majority of remainers accept the trade off between less influence over lawmakers vs being s member of s bigger block, it is only the most rabid of them who don't even see the trade off,

Math, why would I need to see my representative in the House of Lords, given that it is s reforming chamber?

[Oblomov16]

True, OP the campaign was truely shocking, on both sides. Everyone must be laughing at us, laughing at our idiotic debates which was more like a Punch and Judy show.

Have we learnt anything? Do most people understand more of how the EU is set up and works? Do people now know who their MEP is? Or how to contact them?

[larrygrylls]

The eu's directorate for communications has a budget of £200 milo and employs over 1,000 staff. One estimate of the eu's total direct spend on comminications is £560 mil and indirect spend (including funding eu friendly NGOs etc) at over £3bio.

It is not as if the eu had not had a chance to make its case...,

[Unescorted]

I can see my mp who gets to vote on laws just as you can see your MEP in your local constituency, and they also get to vote on the EU policy. Some MEPs (UKIP MEPs) choose not to engage or even turn up on a regular basis. If my MEP was so lazy I would be straight down to their office to complain.
less influence over lawmakers they are voted in by theri constituients - I am not sure how much more influence would be needed. I guess you could stand yourself, but I suspect you may behave in the way some of the UKIP MEPs behave and refuse to turn up.

why would I need to see my representative in the House of Lords, given that it is s reforming chamber They get to propose, vote, block and change legislation so if you don't like how they are voting you might want to lobby them. As they are unelected they don't have a constituency as such so you have to lobby all of them and at the end of your entreaty they have no accountability and therefore can and sometimes will tell you to get lost.

I find it worrying that you do not have a basic understanding of how either the British or EU legislature works and yet you appear to have voted to leave on a vague notion or regaining your democractic birthright. A notion that does not really exist in Britain unless you are the monarch or a peer.

Winnie if you want to directly protest you can look up where the EU parliment is sitting, or you can take a punt on Brusssels as parliment only sits in Strasburg twice a year, usually in the same week. However considering how disengaged many people are I would suggest giving your MEP a call / email as they post bag does not appear to be bulging with queries.

[larrygrylls]

Unescorted,

Well we only have 73meps, so roughly 1 Mep for nearly 1mio people. They generally don't hold surgeries and travel a lot. So, while it is possible to make an appointment to see them weeks in advance, it is not even closely analogous to popping down to an mp's surgery.

Then, even if I manage to talk to them, they are members of huge trans continental voting coalitions.

You keep telling me that I don't understand how things work but do you? Really? Do you know who your Mep is (without a quick google)? Have you taken any interest in them or what they do?

You will clearly answer yes, just to make your point, but I bet an honest answer would be very different.

[Unescorted]

I do - all 5 for my area. One is a UKIP member so we really only have 4.

And yes I do - I work within the Westminster parlimentary system. I understand that Westminster is a toe curling heap of slugs sprinkled with salt of personal ambition. It is not pretty and has nothing to do with "the people" and national good.

[Oblomov16]

Ok. I admit it. I didn't even know who my MEP was until recently.
I suspect many of the population didn't and still don't.

You lot here do, because you take a high interest in such things. But I think you are the minority.