If leaving is such a certain disaster then why did they give us a vote?

[3amEternal]

Seems bizarre to me. Surely if we go out and the sky falls down the government will be at fault for offering the option in the first place?

[Globetrotter100]

About 5 minutes later the farmers throw a cow on him If only...

[AnnPerkins]

It's such a shame that the media circus has turned this into a slapstick comedy sideshow.

I don't know what you mean

[ipsogenix]

eyebrowse you're absolutely right about the lack of class barrier in Scotland. I've moved to England after growing up in Scotland and it boggles my mind, the amount of effort that people go to here to get their kids into private schools. Almost all of the children that I know over the age of 8 here have private tutors solely with the aim of getting them into private schools that will cost the parents £15k a year in fees. It's daft. The really sad thing is that the kids then come out with weird false social mannerisms and seem to entirely lose their sense of self in the process.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

David Davies was supposed to be the last 'next' leader but the party were swayed by PR. Do the Tory party actually see Boris as PM? They may like him but do they see him as leader? Do they want the Boris show?
It's such a shame that the media circus has turned this into a slapstick comedy sideshow. Geldof & Farage made fools of themselves yesterday, Osbourn is a ridiculous man, Cameron has totally lost control, Gove still looks like Pob.

[claig]

'I thought Tory MPs narrowed it down to two candidates'

You may be right, I can't remember how it works

[Sixweekstowait]

Claig I thought Tory MPs narrowed it down to two candidates and then the members of the party voted - so if Boris is one of the final two, he'll be PM won't he? I agree with pp who have said that he promised the referendum to have a bargaining tool because he thought there would be another coalition. I find it hard to believe that the EU will try and negotiate with us after a Brexit vote. I'm just feeling very sad about it all now - it will be Brexit and the saddest thing of is that all the poor and dispossessed who are told that there is a new dawn breakng, will carry on in an even darker world.

[claig]

'I would imagine his name is mud amongst Tory MPs at the moment'

Becuse Tory MPs don't elect the leader. It has to go out to members in the constituency parties etc nd most of those are pro Brexit as are most Tory voters. Cameron and the team of modernisers are unpopular with party members, whereas Boris is popular with them.

[nearlyhellokitty]

Agree that Cameron didn't think it through.

For Boris it's clearly pure political opportunism - seems like he thought that this was his shot at leading. If he wins the referendum, great! if he loses then he still wins because he'll have the support of the disgruntled euroskeptics for being on their side.

[IrenetheQuaint]

Yes Muse, but he is v popular among the party - so we could end up with the odd situation where both major parties have leaders who are loved by their rank and file but disliked or disrespected by their parliamentary colleagues.

[MuddledMuse]

Why do you think Boris would be the next Tory leader? I can't see that at all, even if there is a Brexit. I would imagine his name is mud amongst Tory MPs at the moment and there are other, more sensible options (I speak as someone who doesn't vote Tory).

[Eve]

Leave lead by boris a Tory and next leader if they win, stay Cameron remains in place, but he's already said he will go this term.

So Either scenario see's a Tory led government for a few years as UKIP reduced and Corbyn not effective. It's not about the EU it's pure politics.

[Globetrotter100]

And anyone who thinks article 50 is a "plan" fundamentally misunderstands the treaty. It could be described - at best - as a vaguely ordered exit door. With no handle on the other side

[Brokenbiscuit]

Even if you want to Remain you are best to vote Leave to get the EU to come up with a better offer

FFS, what utter nonsense. If you want to remain, you should obviously vote remain.

[SpringingIntoAction]

It's going to be a who blinks first scenario. If we vote leave the EU will then start to seriously negotiate to keep us in. We are the second biggest net contributors to the EU the EU has a lot to lose if we walk out. It's a classic business negotiation technique

Absolutely.

Even if you want to Remain you are best to vote Leave to get the EU to come up with a better offer, which, according to their past performance they always do. They say they will not make another offer but faced with the every real loss of the UK they will.

[SpringingIntoAction]

Leaving wouldn't be a disaster if we had a coherent plan to deal with how we carry on out of the EU. Unfortunately we don't, and most of the best minds are not working out a comprehensive, constructive and , collaborative way forward. Therefore if we do all vote to leave now it'll be a disaster cos we DONT HAVE A PLAN!!

We do have a plan.

It's called Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. It lays down the process for leaving the EU. It starts when we trigger that law by writing to the EU. The EU must negotiate with us - they are legally bound under the Treaty to do so. The EU is also prevented from penalising for wanting to leave - under Treaty law and World Trade Organisation law.
While we are negotiating our exit from the EU everything continues as normal. However we can also trade freely with the other 168 countries in the world that being in the EU prevented us from doing and start make trade deals with the other 168 countries in the world - who will be queuing to do a deal with us as the world's 5th largest economy.

So we do have a plan. Parliament sits as normal and passes domestic laws as normal. We have as much of a plan for a LEAVE situation as the Government currently has for a REMAIn situation. It's business as usual - even Lord Rose who ran the Remain campaign for Cameron said that

[Squeegle]

Leaving wouldn't be a disaster if we had a coherent plan to deal with how we carry on out of the EU. Unfortunately we don't, and most of the best minds are not working out a comprehensive, constructive and , collaborative way forward. Therefore if we do all vote to leave now it'll be a disaster cos we DONT HAVE A PLAN!!

[NotDavidTennant]

I'm pretty sure that in DC's mind he was going to be hailed for his brilliant renegotiation, win over most of the eurosceptics in his party and lead a largely united Conservative parliamentary party to a victorious remain vote. I don't reckon he thought that many of his own cabinet colleagues would be campaigning against him.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

So Corbyn is being a big girls blouse and Boris this is just about his ambitions

A referendum was offered to win the next election it was when the EU was more stable than it is now Europe is not what it was a year ago we have since then had the biggest refugee problem since WW2

[Limer]

Some very good points already made by PP.

I also think the Tories remembered their last referendum - the AV one in 2011 - that they were forced into by their Coalition partners, the Lib Dems. God it seems so long ago now. That time, they told their supporters how to vote, those supporters did as they were told and AV was rejected. Easy win for the Tories.

They just thought they could do the same this time. But what they didn't factor in was the dawning realisation from the general public of exactly how the EU and its policies impact their daily lives. I also think there's a Brexit mole working for C4 - the screening of that "How To Get A Council House" programme has won more Leave votes than Nigel Farage and Michael Gove combined.

[Mycatsabastard]

I have never felt so confused or bewildered by a vote. I've always voted, even at the local elections, or something deemed trivial and at which there is a 15% turnout. And I will vote.

But right now I'm so torn and so filled with information from both sides I still don't know how to vote. And quite honestly, I'll be bloody glad when it's over.

[Turbinaria]

It's going to be a who blinks first scenario. If we vote leave the EU will then start to seriously negotiate to keep us in. We are the second biggest net contributors to the EU the EU has a lot to lose if we walk out. It's a classic business negotiation technique

[SpringingIntoAction]

The majority was a pyrrhic victory really

Lol I was typing exactly the same description on a different thread.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

I agree with previous posters that they were expecting to be in coalition with the Lib Dems and could weasel out of any promises they had made as part of a coalition deal. That would have given them time to try and sort the issue out.
As it happened they got a majority, a clear majority. And Cameron fired the starting pistol on the race to replace him. MPs weren't slow in starting to jostle for position and they weren't feeling in danger from opposition.
It's all come up red when Dave bet on black.
The majority was a pyrrhic victory really.

[SoThisIsSummer]

They have always underestimated ukip and the suffering people are going through.

[SoThisIsSummer]

^^ indeed springing how ironic